Lancs Eagle Owls (1 Viewer)

[A Dobson]

British Birds Vol 100: pp481-486. (August 2007)
Photos of old bones that may be eagle owls and stuff like that.

a

Anyone got a link to a PDF for this or any other recent literature concerning EEO in GB?

Much appreciated,

Andy

 

[medinabrit]

Britain has accepted so many humans from other parts of the world.
Surely you can accept a few eagle owls.
You should think yourselves fortunate to be able to see these great birds .
I got the thrill of my life when i saw my first great horned owl [similar to the EO] earlier this year.
Brian.

 

[gerdwichers8]

I am not sure if this following info is of any use here, but I was told that in a territory of EO, no smaller owls would occur;( because of expected predation?).
I have found in and near a place of three clustering and calling EO's,1 displaying Short-eared Owl and many other hunting Short-eared Owls. I did not find many Hen Harriers there but within 25 mile I did find a male; which was in fact the only raptor apart from a Peregrine in the area. Did not see any Goshawk, any Buzzard, any Sparrowhawk.
In the same quadrant of 62x62 miles I found one Buzzard (That is not much) but to prove that low densities are caused by EO: I don't know.

This kind of info leaves a lot space for subjectivity but that in any case other owlspecies will not get near EO for breeding is with this refuted.

edit: I found that females have almost the same call; only a bit higher but still the same WHOO-HOO, therefore, there could have been females involved.

 

[Himalaya]

when i visited whitendale to see the EO nest, which is at the bottom of the valley - there were some hen harriers and short eared owls hunting along the upper ridge - does anyone have any idea how far the ridge is above the eagle owl nest?


one SE Owl came down the valley and crossed over the EO female which was about 30-40 m from the nest. i have never seen a SE owl fly so high before. the female EO was feeding on a red legged partridge it had caught but it did see the S E Owl pass above. It may have passed 20-30 metres above us - add a bit more for the EO.

 

[DavidST]

How many chicks have been successfully fledged this year please?
Be lucky
David

 

[Himalaya]

3

so far...

 

[KnockerNorton]

And did anyone read the BB paper? Author reckons they should be considered native but evidence since the last ice age seems a bit thin....

a

it looks very thin to me, and way too thin for the author to make the (admittedly) subjective conclusion that he does. In effect, since the last ice age he presents just one bone as evidence of a native population. He skims over the fact that this was more than likely from a human settlement (hence it was found during an archaeological dig), and that the bird could easily have been imported. If, indeed, it's a EO and not a Snowy...

Interestingly, in the same issue is the article on the history of WTE in lowland Britian, using evidence such as place names to map their possible distribution. It's interesting that there is so much evidence for WTE, but just 1 lonely bone for EO in the same period...

 

[Farnboro John]

Interestingly, in the same issue is the article on the history of WTE in lowland Britian, using evidence such as place names to map their possible distribution. It's interesting that there is so much evidence for WTE, but just 1 lonely bone for EO in the same period...

Might have something to do with eagles' traditional revered position due to noble appearance etc and owls' traditional reputation as harbingers of doom?

That would account for the difference at human settlements, and except under very particular circumstances bird remains are unlikely to persist in the environment.

John

 

[DavidST]

Any sightings yet this spring?
Are they courting yet?
Here's hoping.
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David

 

[TJW]

Any sightings yet this spring?
Are they courting yet?
Here's hoping.
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David

Rumour has it that they have been done away with.

 

[Big Phil]

Interestingly, in the same issue is the article on the history of WTE in lowland Britian, using evidence such as place names to map their possible distribution. It's interesting that there is so much evidence for WTE, but just 1 lonely bone for EO in the same period...

The BB paper on WTE overstated the likelihood of a connection between place names and the presence of Eagles and rather ignored alternative explanations imo. Speculation at best. Not evidence.

 

[Martin Thomas]

Care to expand on this please?

Rumour has it that they have been done away with.

 

[KnockerNorton]

The BB paper on WTE overstated the likelihood of a connection between place names and the presence of Eagles and rather ignored alternative explanations imo. Speculation at best. Not evidence.

Agreed, hence it was in BB and not Bird Study, I'd wager.

But the lack of EO remains/evidence at a number of sites is compelling evidence in itself, I'd protest.

Farnborough John, it's hard to imagine that EO wouldn't feature at human settlements, as art or remains, when so many other species do, from Otter to Cormorant to Boar. Bird remains are common at many settlements and sites, from caves to middens to wetland sites. Flixborough alone generated 22,000 items of bird bones. There is no way of telling whether the single post ice-age bone mentioned in the BB article was imported or from a native bird. Importation has to be a distinct possibility, dead or alive. Also, it's not wholly convincing whether the bone was a snowy owl or eagle owl.

 

[Big Phil]

But the lack of EO remains/evidence at a number of sites is compelling evidence in itself

No it isn't evidence of anything. It's just interesting speculation.

In the archaelogical / fossil record we get an extremely narrow, incomplete and distorted view back into the past. Absence of any species from this record may just mean remains didn't survive or we didn't find them yet.

 

[rob stoff]

Rumour has it that they have been done away with.

is the suggestion here that the authorities have secretly done away with them??

If so I can't imagine anyone with sufficient motive to do so given the likely consequences if their actions were revealed.

Rob

 

[rob stoff]

No it isn't evidence of anything. It's just interesting speculation.

it is evidence of a lack of evidence.

Rob

 

[harald misund]

WTSE and EO

Eagle Owl and White tailed Sea Eagle
I am a new member of Bird Forum,and I am not quit sure there is wise for me as a foreigner with limit knowhow with the language to put may head up. But since may age are over 70 and I live far away I take the risk. From the small Herring town Ålesund in Vest coast of Norway(Named little London under the WW2), I visited a tidy London spring 1953. As a bird interested boy I was for hours wandered around the Duck Island in ST. JAMES`S Park, in 1998 I visit the same place, then I have RSPB medal in silver in may pocked, not bad for an ordinary man from the outskirt of the Wold. In 1960 I come North in Bodø, a small town in Salten area named after the Saltfjord, where you Vest Coast WTSE come from. I have try for 40 years to find out where they breed and how many pair there are in a limit area of c1000 km2, but that have been more difficult and I have foreseen,--and know the time running out of may hands. I have look a lot after birds name I have fond in map, and still I find WTSE breeding there at the same habitat or other are using them as roosting places, and several places have larder so still are used, maybe used for hundred of years. How old are some nest site? Well difficult to find out, but the oldest documented I find in IBIS no.3 from 1861, from the same habitat I have taken one young to Scotland.
As far as I know most of the nest site of WTSE are old, new is added when people leave they former nesting area or let them stay without disturbing them.
The Eagle Owls breed in the Helgeland Coast South of Kunna (where Salten area begin), and breed in same are as WTSE, but I have limited knowledge to the bird, only looked at some few old nesting site,but used lot of time to look after them, someplace they have breeding innland before WW2, but I have not found any in the outer Coast in Salten, that can have maybe something with the spreading of vole. I have never heard about any problem to have a EO in the neighbourhood.
EO in UK will for me raise the question of all Birds of Prey you have in cages and hold for Falconry, and I hope for the future it will end to hold birds in captivity. Birds of Prey, without looking after a huge WING TAG and antenna, but let them flying in the sky only for fun.
This year some new WTSE will be taken in the Vest Coast of Norway, to end up in East of Scotland, for me not a WTSE land, but they have wings so they hopefully can chose a better place to live.
Well I hope you have understand may message, let birds live free.

Hilsen
Harald

 

[pe'rigin]

Well I hope you have understand may message, let birds live free./QUOTE]


I agree with you Harald, birds should fly free.

Unfortunately, as a species man has messed-up big-time in our nature management and we are still continuingly doing so. Trying to correct our past mistakes is an emotive discussion.

I don’t like to see WTSE’s removed Norway, but at least when they are released in Scotland they are free.

Compare this to the Peregrines, which are captured and given to falconers.

The success of the WTSE Mull birds must give us hope that at last we are moving towards the correct outcome.

The EO’s are another argument altogether, I’m in favour of just leaving them alone.

 

[Farnboro John]

Agreed, hence it was in BB and not Bird Study, I'd wager.

But the lack of EO remains/evidence at a number of sites is compelling evidence in itself, I'd protest.

Farnborough John, it's hard to imagine that EO wouldn't feature at human settlements, as art or remains, when so many other species do, from Otter to Cormorant to Boar. Bird remains are common at many settlements and sites, from caves to middens to wetland sites. Flixborough alone generated 22,000 items of bird bones. There is no way of telling whether the single post ice-age bone mentioned in the BB article was imported or from a native bird. Importation has to be a distinct possibility, dead or alive. Also, it's not wholly convincing whether the bone was a snowy owl or eagle owl.

Yeah but - like I said, owls have this bad reputation, which would mitigate against them being deliberately brought into a settlement. And sheer numbers don't prove a lot. A Flixborough council estate wheely bin might well have hundreds of KFC chicken wings and leg bones in it but they would all be from chickens. Numbers without analysis don't tell us anything, and discounting cultural influences (which are evidence of a kind) doesn't help either.

John

 

[Amarillo]

Is this still going on?!

There is no evidence. Most people accept that. The difference in opinion is down to whether you consider the species alien unless proved otherwise, or if you consider the possiblilty that they were here in the past great enough to give them the benefit of the doubt.

There are 2 valid ways of looking at this and no-one is ever going to "win" the argument.

As for the owls themselves, does anyone have any more info on whether the lancashire pair are still around or if not what happened?