Large Gull ID - Ireland, North Coast (1 Viewer)

[martyrynin]

Hey,

I saw this gull this evening at the North coast of Ireland, and wondered if this could be a Caspian gull?
(This game again)

Dark eyed: fair enough a small number of Herring are like that.

Hooked and fairly thin bill: could be Herring / age related?

Those two factors at the same time: ??

The head shape also appears different to me, but I'm not sure how significant that is.

 

[martyrynin]

Just a little more info.

I think it matters quite a bit if the gull is third cycle or fourth cycle.

If it is third cycle, I would expect the tail to have a significant amount of black on it for Herring gull.

I can also see a "tertial spot" from the recording, when the gull is facing the other way. It was mentioned as an ID feature in one of the books.

On the flip side, if it's fourth cycle, then I would expect Caspian to pretty much have adult plumage, which this bird does not.

 

[Steve Lister]

Nothing about this bird suggests anything but Herring Gull to me.

 

[martyrynin]

Nothing about this bird suggests anything but Herring Gull to me.

Thanks for confirming! Is it 4th cycle?

 

[Evan Atkinson]

Looks like a subadult (4th winter I believe) Herring Gull. Note the short bill, overall dumpy appearance, always think Casp's are quite 'long' so to speak. Also the overall structure is very conclusive for a Herring Gull. Hope this helps.

Evan

 

[martyrynin]

Looks like a subadult (4th winter I believe) Herring Gull. Note the short bill, overall dumpy appearance, always think Casp's are quite 'long' so to speak. Also the overall structure is very conclusive for a Herring Gull. Hope this helps.

Evan

Unfortunately I've realised that the bill isn't the most ideal ID feature:

• https://ebird.org/checklist/S102435076
• https://ebird.org/checklist/S189955524
• https://ebird.org/checklist/S62219620

If it wasn't for the primaries / leg ring, I wouldn't know any of these were Caspian. Maybe that's the point, that I shouldn't even be trying to ID without the primaries.
I.e. everything without primaries should be assumed Herring unless incredibly exaggerated, like super long bill.

 

[Evan Atkinson]

Unfortunately I've realised that the bill isn't the most ideal ID feature:

• https://ebird.org/checklist/S102435076
• https://ebird.org/checklist/S189955524
• https://ebird.org/checklist/S62219620

If it wasn't for the primaries / leg ring, I wouldn't know any of these were Caspian. Maybe that's the point, that I shouldn't even be trying to ID without the primaries.
I.e. everything without primaries should be assumed Herring unless incredibly exaggerated, like super long bill.

I'd say the last 2 links show quite classic individuals imo, despite the last bird having quite a short bill. The primary patterns are invaluable imo.

 

[martyrynin]

I was hoping someone might be able to comment on the white tail. Is that signal or noise?

Here's a dark-eyed Herring I saw today that appears to be the same cycle (4th) as the bird in the OP.
Normal head shape, thick bill, and a significant amount of dark marks on the tail.

 

[lou salomon]

actually, in a 4th cycle, tail usually is white.

 

[martyrynin]

actually, in a 4th cycle, tail usually is white.

Ah thanks Lou! Is the gull above (todays gull) also 4th cycle, that just happens to not have a white tail?

 

[lou salomon]

Looks like a 4th cycle, yes, especially on large primary tips.

 

[martyrynin]

Looks like a 4th cycle, yes, especially on large primary tips.

Thanks for the help!