Mysticete
Well-known member
I don't know how it's pronounced, but that is nothing new for me for a lot of bird names
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Latest IOC Diary Updates (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sally Conyne
- Start date
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
What's the alternative?
It's vert different, comparing a famous World capital or a remote island that few, outside of birding, will ever have heard of.
Last edited:
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Saying it wrongly, in country, will have consequences. I was trying to get to a place in Sumatra for Milky Stork called Percut and could not find anybody who knew where it was, this changed immediately with the correct pronunciation.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
I can tell you from experience, unless you you've been or done some 'prep', that number will be close to zero.
l_raty
laurent raty
The pronunciation of c is quite versatile, which makes it a difficult letter in foreign words -- depending on the language (and, in some language, on the letter that follows it), it can be similar to (at least) the English sounds k, s, ch, j (as in Turkish), or ts (Slavic languages). Westerners typically tend to stick to one of the first two pronunciations, occasionally shift to the third (particularly when the word looks Italian -- limoncello), and are often plainly unaware of the last two.
Here, it's indeed closest to an English ch (albeit perhaps a bit softer, tending towards j).
The Dutch write it Ketjil; in English, you'll also find it spelled Kechil.
I don't know if they would appreciate it being called a "shitty attempt at transliteration" -- it's the official spelling of the word, using the alphabet that is used officially in the country... But it's not a spelling that is very "English-speaker-friendly"...
Here, it's indeed closest to an English ch (albeit perhaps a bit softer, tending towards j).
The Dutch write it Ketjil; in English, you'll also find it spelled Kechil.
I don't know if they would appreciate it being called a "shitty attempt at transliteration" -- it's the official spelling of the word, using the alphabet that is used officially in the country...
But it's not a spelling that is very "English-speaker-friendly"...
l_raty
laurent raty
It's presented as an alignment "with other major world bird lists."
(Hopefully IOC don't start aligning "with Clements" alone, just for the sake of it, because, with Clements set to adopt the AOS common names, doing this would arguably fully justify the "knee-jerk reaction equivocating this with the AOS common names situation"...)
(I would vastly prefer alignments with usage as found in the literature (preferably across time -- without limiting the considerations to the most recent works), rather than seeing the erasure of names that seem to be prevailing in the literature, in favour of potentially confusing recent inventions, on the mere pretext that the more recent name is accepted by another (or even two) world checklist(s). In this regard, "Chestnut-throated" for the Tetraophasis is a particularly unfortunate choice -- not only does "Verreaux's" seem more entranched in the literature, but, in any pre-Sibley & Monroe publication, "Chestnut-throated Partridge" is, actually, the name of Odontophorus hyperythrus... E.g. : v.13:pt.1:no.1 (1942) - Catalogue of birds of the Americas and the adjacent islands in Field Museum of Natural History - Biodiversity Heritage Library )
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I don't know if they would appreciate it being called a "shitty attempt at transliteration" -- it's the official spelling of the word, using the alphabet that is used officially in the country...
I meant that my attempt to transliterate the correct spelling into something that native english speakers might pronounce closer to correctly, at least as I understand it with my feeble command of Bahasa Indonesia, would be shitty
opisska
rabid twitcher
I mean this is really a tangent but I find this is an interesting disadvantage of the English language - your pronunciation is so out there that it's almost weird that you write English down using the Latin alphabet. This I think is mainly due to your written record being so old - for example Czech had developed from older languages that did not really have a standard written form first, but for which one was artificially devised by scholars sent by the church and thus it was based on Latin (even though, as I have learned only recently, the actual Roman Latin sounded quite different from this already). Now when we have "exotic" languages written in Latin alphabet, those writing systems had to be invented at some point, relatively recently - because someone had to introduce the Latin alphabet to the pre-existing language - and this has typically been done along similar lines than for Czech in the distant past. So yes, there are differences and I will sometimes do embarrassing "Czechisms" when reading things like Bahasa Indonesia, but i get it surprisingly correct just on feeling, which is a luxury that English speakers don't have.
Jacana
Will Jones
It's missing from the Diary page, but there's a new split to report:
| Red-throated Rock Martin | Ptyonoprogne rufigula | ADD | AS | Pale Crag Martin | Red-throated Rock Martin Ptyonoprogne rufigula (including bansoensis) is split from (Large) Rock Martin P. fuligula based on morphology supported by phylogenomic analysis (Brown 2019; del Hoyo & Collar 2016; HBW/BLI). |
For the purposes of the Name A Bird You've Seen thread, which of the two new species did you have in mind when you named Rock Martin?
Jacana
Will Jones
Large. I haven't seen Red-throated
Paul Clapham
Well-known member
Also:
| Marquesan Imperial Pigeon | Ducula galeata | Nuku Hiva Imperial Pigeon | Change English name of Marquesan Imperial Pigeon Ducula galeata to the more precise Nuku Hiva Imperial Pigeon following HBW/BirdLife. |
Jacana
Will Jones
Finally, an armchair tick!
Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
And an armchair tick for me...if Clements catches up with IOC.
Mysticete
Well-known member
Next update you should get this!
Also sort of figured this would be one that would boost a lot of folks lists, although sadly not mine
Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
Let's hope.Next update you should get this!
Also sort of figured this would be one that would boost a lot of folks lists, although sadly not mine
FWIW, I have the Rock Martin split, too.
So if I'm reading the spreadsheet right that's Taiwan, China and the Himalayas in the new species, with the very northern bit of China and the entire of the rest of the world remaining as Spotted.
Sula and Sulawesi into one species, the rest of the world remains Slender-billed. Except the 2 subspecies split off in 2021, which are now 2 species.
Markus Lagerqvist
Well-known member
Mar 15 Accept split of Western Yellow-billed Barbet from (Eastern) Yellow-billed Barbet.
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