Latest IOC Diary Updates (6 Viewers)

[Jacana]

Would someone be able to share the recent Sangster Red Grouse Paper

Does it comment on any other populations? There have of course been suggestions that some other Ptarmigan populations elsewhere in the world may also warrant splitting, like some of the Bering Sea island populations.

Full text available on ResearchGate:

The taxonomic status of Red Grouse | Request PDF

Request PDF | The taxonomic status of Red Grouse | The Red Grouse Lagopus lagopus scotica is a well-known but declining bird endemic to Britain and Ireland. Its taxonomic status was downgraded from... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[Mysticete]

MJB was kind enough to send me the paper.

 

[Paul Clapham]

Feb 3 Post proposed lump of Caqueta Seedeater with Wing-barred Seedeater.

 

[Mysticete]

Feb 5 Post proposed lump of Abbott's Sunbird with Souimanga Sunbird.

 

[MJB]

Feb 12 Post proposed split of Lesser Sand Plover into two species: Siberian Sand Plover Charadrius mongolus and Tibetan Sand Plover C. atrifrons.

Feb 12 Post proposed splits of Anjouan White-eye and Moheli White-eye from Malagasy White-eye.
MJB

 

[opisska]

Any idea of wintering ranges of the new LSP species? Oman looks quite clear for Tibetian, but what winters in Thailand and Cambodia?

 

[mb1848]

I guess I really do not care about common names but Pallas said his bird was from Mongolia.
P. S. Pallas. Reise durch verschiedene Provinzen des Rußischen Reichs Page 700.
And Wagler said his bird was from Bengala.
Bd.22 (1829) - Isis von Oken. - Biodiversity Heritage Library .
So Bengal Tiger-Plover and Mongolian-Plover?
Hirschfeld & Roselaar 2000 say: “Stresemann's (1940 ) larger sample from southern Tibet and (especially) northern Sikkim, which included the type specimen of atrifrons “? Darjeeling is in West Bengal now. Not sure if Stressemann 1940 is online.
Ornithologische Monatsberichte . Snippets.

 

[l_raty]

Not sure if Stressemann 1940 is online.

This should be viewable from the US : Ornithologische Monatsberichte. v.47-48.

 

[mb1848]

Thanks Laurent. Stresemann said type from Bengal and (!) evidently a migrant bird. (In English) Then he restricted the name to birds breeding in the Kokonor lake region. So Mongolian Plover and Chinese Plover.

 

[sicklebill]

Any idea of wintering ranges of the new LSP species? Oman looks quite clear for Tibetian, but what winters in Thailand and Cambodia?

In Australia we get mongolus and stegmanni, atrifrons and schaeferi are listed by IOC as wintering in S China and the Greater Sundas, and for Cambodia and Thailand only schaeferi is listed for those countries in the respective Lynx field guides

 

[Mysticete]

I assume the Sand plovers are another attempt at reconciling IOC and Birdlife? I think they are split in the latter checklist?

 

[l_raty]

I assume the Sand plovers are another attempt at reconciling IOC and Birdlife? I think they are split in the latter checklist?

No, they're not.
So far as the Big 4 are concerned, this would be an IOC-only split.

 

[James Eaton]

Any idea of wintering ranges of the new LSP species? Oman looks quite clear for Tibetian, but what winters in Thailand and Cambodia?

Tibetan winters throughout mainland South-Southeast Asia. There are actually no records from Thailand, Cambodia, Singapore or Peninsular Malaysia of Siberian (nor Sumatra). Siberian occurs on passage along coastal Vietnam however.
Tibetan also is the primary winterer on Borneo, Bali and Java. However, eastern Indonesia it's exclusively Siberian on current knowledge, with small numbers of Siberian wintering Sarawak and Sabah (thus presumably rest of Borneo) and Java.

 

[gusasp]

I assume the Sand plovers are another attempt at reconciling IOC and Birdlife? I think they are split in the latter checklist?

No, based on a new study from Wei et al. 2022 where mongolus ends up closer to Greater Sand than to atrifrons.

(PDF) Genome-wide data reveals paraphyly in the sand plover complex (Charadrius mongolus/leschenaultii)

I like the name Tibetan for atrifrons, but not so sure of Siberian. To me, Siberia is further to the west, while the area mongolus breeds in is Russian Far East. (see Siberia - Wikipedia). A better suggestion would be Kolyma Plover . The range is somewhat similar to that of Great Knot which in Swedish we call kolymasnäppa. Anything is better than Mongolian though, as only atrifrons breeds there.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Tibetan winters throughout mainland South-Southeast Asia. There are actually no records from Thailand, Cambodia, Singapore or Peninsular Malaysia of Siberian (nor Sumatra). Siberian occurs on passage along coastal Vietnam however.
Tibetan also is the primary winterer on Borneo, Bali and Java. However, eastern Indonesia it's exclusively Siberian on current knowledge, with small numbers of Siberian wintering Sarawak and Sabah (thus presumably rest of Borneo) and Java.

Notoriously difficult to ID in winter plumage, how are they being done with such confidence unless they moult, post arrival?

 

[johnallcock]

The Lesser Sand Plover split is long overdue, I've been surprised that this has taken so long to get proposed at IOC. It's also potentially an important one for conservation, as Siberian SP has been showing some serious declines in Australia and Asia, and is probably globally threatened.

Notoriously difficult to ID in winter plumage, how are they being done with such confidence unless they moult, post arrival?

The idea that they are difficult to separate in non-breeding plumage has been in circulation for a long time but is incorrect. They differ in structure, plumage and behaviour. I would say they are no more difficult to separate than other shorebird species pairs that regularly get identified (actually, I personally find them easier than White-faced/Kentish Plover and much easier than certain stints or snipe). Experience helps, of course, and the ranges don't overlap that much so many birders don't get the opportunity to see them side-by-side.

Further to the summary of distribution given above by James, the ranges meet in Southern China. Here in Hong Kong, most autumn and winter birds are Tibetan, with Siberian in small numbers in winter but becoming by far the more abundant taxon during spring passage. As you head west along the coast, Tibetan gets much more abundant and Siberian gets rarer. Within about 100-200km from HK, Siberian are hugely outnumbered throughout the year.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

To me, Siberia is further to the west, while the area mongolus breeds in is Russian Far East. (see Siberia - Wikipedia). A better suggestion ...

Gustav, NE (Nationalencyklopedin/the Swedish National Encyclopedia) says:

Sibiʹrien, ryska Sibir, område öster om Uralbergen i Ryssland; 12,8 miljoner km2, inklusive ryska Fjärran östern. ...

Meaning (for our English readers ):
"Siberia, Russian Sibir, area East of the Ural Mountains in Russia; 12,8 million square km, including Russian Far East. ..."

In General NE is (far) more trustworthy than Wiki.

/B

 

[opisska]

Thanks, so all we have is probably Tibetian then, what a shame! I find the idea that the species should be separable in winter in the field a bit shocking though, considering how difficult it is to even separate them from GSPs!

 

[exilipes]

No, based on a new study from Wei et al. 2022 where mongolus ends up closer to Greater Sand than to atrifrons.

(PDF) Genome-wide data reveals paraphyly in the sand plover complex (Charadrius mongolus/leschenaultii)

Similar conclusions to this 2020 twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/comicterns/status/1314161131360079872?lang=en-GB

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314161131360079872

 

[Andy Adcock]

The idea that they are difficult to separate in non-breeding plumage has been in circulation for a long time but is incorrect. They differ in structure, plumage and behaviour. I would say they are no more difficult to separate than other shorebird species pairs that regularly get identified (actually, I personally find them easier than White-faced/Kentish Plover and much easier than certain stints or snipe). Experience helps, of course, and the ranges don't overlap that much so many birders don't get the opportunity to see them side-by-side.

Jan wrote

I find the idea that the species should be separable in winter in the field a bit shocking though, considering how difficult it is to even separate them from GSPs!

So easy that a full 'sum plum'atrifrons (think it was this race?) was held to be a Greater for a few days in the UK