latouchei / Latoucheornis / latouchi / latouchii (1 Viewer)

[Taphrospilus]

Just a guess on HBW key entries:

John David Digges La Touche (1861-1935) Irish ornithologist, Imperial Maritime Customs Service, China 1882-1921

If I look here and here he was born in Tours France. Isn't he than french and not irish?

In his birth entry here p. 107 of 256 he is as Jean David La Touche. As I read Charles Jean La Touche (father) and Marie Appoline de Fouchier (mother). I have no clue about the Digues in his name.

 

[l_raty]

As I read Charles Jean La Touche (father) and Marie Appoline de Trouchier(mother). I have no clue about the Digges in his name.

His father is said here to be Charles Jean La Touche, indeed; but note that his signature reads "Charles J. de la Touche".
His mother, here: Marie Rose Appoline (misspelling for Apolline?) de Fouchier.

[Here], "Guides de la Touche" seems to be treated as his father's surname. A mistake for "Digues de la Touche"? (This -- i.e, not "Digges" -- is the spelling used in his obituaries.)

 

[Taphrospilus]

but note that his signature reads "Charles J. de la Touche".

Couldn't it be a Charles G. de la Touche?

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

The Obituaries do say: John David Digues La Touche, this is also how Wiki prefer to spell it ... typo, James?

In my MS I have him simply as John David La Touche, only mentioned in context, as Author (auctor) of "Acanthopneuste trochiloides claudiæ" 1922 ["Claudia's Leaf-Warbler"], earlier dealt with in thread Who was Mrs. Hartert? (here), simply as that OD was written by "Mr. J. D. La Touche" ...

For what its worth!

Björn

 

[l_raty]

The original family name seems to have been Digues de la Touche. See [here], [here], and in quite a lot of other places.
It was a French Huguenot family, that moved to Ireland after the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes, then came back to France in the 19th C.
Charles Jean would be born in Ireland in 1811, if you believe the first link above.

"Digges La Touche" may have been an Anglicization.

 

[l_raty]

His parents' marriage record (Tours, 13 Jun 1860): [here], 73/193.
At this point, his father resided at the Château de la Touche, Loir et Cher; he was indeed born in Dublin in 1811 (son of Jean David La Touche, banker, and Anne Caroline Tottenham, no profession; both deceased in Ireland, Parish of New White Church, County of Dublin). His mother appears to have been French and born in France.

His parents were in any case treated as French by the French administration, so far as I can assess.


In the context of the Irish history of his family: he is also mentioned [here]

 

[Taphrospilus]

His parents' marriage record (Tours, 13 Jun 1860): [here], 73/193.

Think it is 78/193 (entry 101)

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

A Handbook of the Birds of Eastern China, vol. 1, here, by "J. D. D. La Touche", review here.

If of any use?

By the way, the HBW (very) Alive Key is updated:

John David Digues La Touche (1861-1935) Irish ornithologist, in Imperial Maritime Customs Service, China 1882-1921 ...

Björn

PS. In my MS he is a French-Irish ornithologist.
--

 

[Taphrospilus]

To understand Richmond a little bit better. Or what is the first fascicule mentioned here? I assume The Naturalist in Manchuria was published in several parts. Or is anything else the OD?

NOTE ON A NEW VARIETY OF SWAN : In his last fascicule on the Zikawei Museum birds Pere Courtois names a new variety of Swan, Cygnus cygnua latouchei. It is a specimen that Mr. La Touche kept alive along with a Jankowski's Swan for some time. He used to remark that its size and the crook of its neck and other characteristics made him suspect that it might be another variety. It will be found pictured in " The Naturalist in Manchuria " Vol. III. Page 306, both singly and as one of a pair of Jankowski's Swan. G.D.W

Here Jankowski's Swan wih pictures of La Touche.

 

[l_raty]

To understand Richmond a little bit better. Or what is the first fascicule mentioned here? I assume The Naturalist in Manchuria was published in several parts. Or is anything else the OD?

The OD is on p. 137 in: Courtois F. 1927. Les oiseaux du Musée de Zi-ka-wei. Notes et additions. Mém. Hist. Nat. Empire Chinois, 5 (3): 123-159. [here].
Shouldn't latouchei be a syn of bewickii, rather than of cygnus as currently in the Key?

(Interesting to see how both Courtois and (rather inexpectedly) Sowerby include a French "de" in La Touche's name -- "M. de la Touche", "J. D. de La Touche".)

 

[l_raty]

The Courtois in: https://www.hbw.com/dictionary/definition/courtoisi

 

[James Jobling]

To my eyes both the swans shown in La Touche's photos have the jizz and appearance of Whooper Swans.

 

[l_raty]

On p. 120 of his work, published 1918, Courtois wrote:

(395) [708] Cygnus jankowskii Alphéraky = C. davidi Giglioli et Salvadori (non Sw)
Les auteurs placent la distinction entre le Cygne de Bewick, C. minor Pall. et le Cygne sauvage C. ferus Ray dans les
dimensions moindres, dans les plumes du front qui s'avancent en angle obtus et dans le jaune du bec, qui, à partir de la base,
ne dépasse pas en avant le bord postérieur des narines. Le C. jankowskii est la race orientale, plus grande et à bec plus fort
du C. minor.
Nos deux Cygnes ont le jaune du bec complètement à l'arrière des narines ; mais chez l'un les plumes du front forment un
angle obtus, presque un arc, tandis que chez l'autre qui est de taille moindre, elles forment un angle aigu et elles sont soulignées
d'un trait noir.
M. de la Touche inclinerait à nommer celui-ci C. jankowskii et son compagnon C. ferus. Cette dernière identification me
paraît difficilement conciliable avec les caractères qui viennent d'être rappelés. Tous les deux sont plutôt des Cygnes de Jankowski.
J'avoue qu'une bonne description de cette espèce me manque. Ni Giglioli et Salvadori (P. Z. S. 1887 p. 589 et pl. LII),
ni Buturlin (The Ibis, Oct. 1907, p. 651), ni Alphéraky, si l'on en croit M. Buturlin ibid. ne sont complets. La description
originale d'Alphéraky a paru dans une Revue russe, Priroda i Okhota (Nature et Sport) Sept. 1904 p. 10 que je n'ai pas à ma
disposition.

Then on p. 137, published 1927, he changed his mind:

(433) [707] Cygnus musicus Bechst.
Le Cat. B. M. 27, p. 26, adopte cette combinaison ; le Hand-List 1, p. 207 dit Cygnus cygnus L.; d'autres tiennent pour
Cygnus ferus. Trouessart (complément à Degland et Gerbe) écrit C. musicus.
Une étude plus attentive de nos Cygnes me semble imposer une opinion différente de celle que j'ai exposée à la page 120.
Le Cygnus jankowskii est différencié par une taille moindre et par le jaune du bec qui s'arrête nettement en arrière des
narines ; ce caractère est vérifié sur le plus petit des deux Cygnes vivants que nous devons à M. de la Touche.
Chez le Cygnus musicus (ferus), ce jaune s'étend en avant le long de la mandibule supérieure, jusqu'au niveau du bord
antérieur des narines.
Or chez le second de nos Cygnes vivants, de même que chez un autre sujet qui nous est venu de Ou-toan
et qui a vécu plus d'un an ici, la plage jaune tout en respectant d'une façon absolue les narines et se tenant à leur arrière, se
prolonge cependant comme un éperon le long de la mandibule à peu près jusqu'à l'avant de l'ouverture nasale. Ces deux spécimens
doivent donc être rapportés à C. musicus. A partir du front, on remarque à la partie supérieure du bec une forte et large
dépression dont les bords représentent un fer de lance tronqué.
N'y a-t-il pas lieu de faire de ces deux spécimens une race ou sous-espèce du C. musicus ? En toute justice elle devrait,
s'il en est bien ainsi, porter le vocable Cygnus musicus latouchei ou Cygnus latouchei.

I've attached a capture of plate 95 of Courtois' work (published together with the OD) from the Google Books scan; he called the bird on the upper right jankowskii, the other two (including the very poorly scanned lower image) latouchei.
He based the name on two birds, one of which was the left-hand bird on the picture showing the pair in Sowerby's publication; his view in 1927 was that these two birds had to be Whoopers because the yellow on their bill extended in a spur-shaped way towards the bill tip (albeit not past the nostrils).

The head/bill profile looks wrong for Whooper to me; not flat/straight enough, too much upturned. The bill pattern of the "jankowskii" bird excludes Whooper entirely. (Beware that eastern Bewick's average somewhat longer-necked and longer-billed than our birds.)

 

[Taphrospilus]

The OD is on p. 137 in: Courtois F. 1927. Les oiseaux du Musée de Zi-ka-wei. Notes et additions. Mém. Hist. Nat. Empire Chinois, 5 (3): 123-159.

I am a little bit confused about publication dates. If I look here there might be a separate publication.

Or what is the first fascicule mentioned here?

..sems to be published in 1925, but Père Frédéric Courtois article is from 1927?

 

[l_raty]

The whole work was published in 6 parts; the parts' content and date (as appearing on the title page of each part):

1. pp. 1-98: 1912
2. pl. 1-13: 1914
3. pp. 101-109 + pl. 14-30: 1916
4. pp. 111-121 + pl. 31-45: 1918
5. pl. 46-67: 1919
6. pp. 123-159 + pl. 68-103: 1927

(The first two parts are both called "1er fascicule"; the subsequent parts are "2e", "3e", "4e" and "5e fascicule".)
Cygnus (musicus) latouchei is in the last part -- as I wrote above, p. 137, and plate 95.
I guess it's possible that the actual publication was earlier, or that the work was circulated before that date ? In any case, this is quite clearly where Courtois introduced the name, and what this China Journal paper, apparently dated 1925, is pointing at.
FWIW, La Touche in his Handbook of the birds of eastern China (Vol. I, p. v of the Preface, as well as Vol. II, p. 470) gives 1927 as well.

The publication dated "1912" will presumably have been given the date of publication appearing on the title page of the first part.

 

[Taphrospilus]

Aren't...

subsp. Seicercus valentini latouchii
subsp. Phylloscopus valentini latouchei

.. the same. Why twice in the key?

 

[James Jobling]

Aaaarrgghh. Phylloscopus, Seicercus Seicercus, Phylloscopus thalassa, thalatta
Left hand, right hand, brain all working on different circuits - is it Christmas yet? is this a dagger I see before me? Point me in the direction of the nearest darkened room.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Sorry, James, Christmas is still a month, a looooong month away, but I might put you at ease, simply to avoid an impending nervous breakdown (if not too late?), with the info that it looks like Bangs (1929) used the latouchei version, as in "Seicercus burkii latouchei" (Google snippet view, here), not latouchii.

Cheers!

Björn (... from another darkened room )

PS. Well noted, Martin!
--

 

[Taphrospilus]

Might make sense to investigate more on his family to find e.g. the birth and death date of his daughter Jeanne e.g. in Zosterops palpebrosus joannae or his wife Caroline La Touche described in Brachypteryx leucophris carolinae (no clear dedication).

Anyway in the key he is suddenly British in his wife entry. Found only:

R. Emmanuel Ch., San Angelo, Chapl. to Am. Legion and Elks and Masonic Lodges of San Angelo. — b. Clontarf. Ireland; youngest son, William Earle, M.D., and Jeanne (La Touche). Fellow Royal Hist. Soc, Ireland; Mem. Royal Irish Acad.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Whithout digging further into the La Touche Family*, here´s a guick return to the identity of the Swan "Cygnus musicus latouchei ou [or] Cygnus latouchei" ["C. musicus" is today's C. cygnys] ...

Location doesn't help much. The type location of "La Touche's Swan" (as it was called here here) was "Chinwangtao, North east Chinli, China" (according to here) [equal of today's Qinhuangdao], indicating nothing more than it could be either a Cygnus (colombianus) bewicki, or an individual of the monotypic Whooper Swan Cygnus cygnus, but I do agree with James, the bird/birds on the Photo/s looks a bit too long-necked (and bulky) to fit the former, except for the bill, of one of them. Both could have appeared in the same area (as indicated here).

However; also compare the attached Photo (by La Touche, from the latter link in Martin's post #9) with the following photos of Eastern (Siberian), Bewick's (here, here and here). The Swans on the latter, modern Photos look fairly long-necked to me.

And; note that "C. jankowskii" (here called "Alpheraky's Swan" alt. Jankowski's Swan) today, by most, is considered a synonym of Cygnus (colombianus) bewicki ... !?

Also note that La Touche himself in his A Handbook of the Birds of Eastern China (1925-1930), links in Laurent's #15, listed Courtois's "Cygnus musicus latouchei" (1927) as synonyms, in parts, of both Cygnus cygnus and "Cygnus jankowskii" (p.470 resp. 471, see attached excerpt).

If of any help/use?

Björn

_______________________________________
*A quick browse, following the clues given in Martin's post #19:
it looks like the "Digges"/Digues la Touche" Family is a mess,
with several namesakes (on both males and females).
Anyone getting into it: Good luck!
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