Lion slaughtered by "hunter" (1 Viewer)

[Mike Richardson]

The numbers may be questionable, but the general argument is that healthy wolves aren't "harmless", they're just relatively unlikely to attack people, particularly when compared to boars or feral dogs (just to stay with animal examples). There's biological reasons for this, of course, such as the general aggressiveness of humans towards other predators, or the fact that even an unarmed adult human may be too much to handle for an individual wolf. I think that the exaggerations we sometimes see on this board and in other places ("wolves are entirely harmless and never attack people") are doing nobody a favour, least of all the wolves in case something does happen - because then, conservationists may lose public support for appearing untrustworthy or incompetent.

I completely agree with you. The risk of human death by predators such as wolves is real, but greatly exaggerated and insignificant compared with most other risks people face every day.

 

[Nutcracker]

This one is quite a good illustration of the real world :
http://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/Most-Lethal-Animal-Mosquito-Week

Mosquitos never killed anyone - the diseases they carry do, though.

 

[locustella]

The lion is a recurent theme in the book about Hadjarai:
Peter Fuchs, Ambasira, Land der Dämonen, 1964
including the first chapter "The old lion" and the chapter "Turma tales".
In first chapter the lion is not very eager to hunt people, ate only goat. Two boys taking care about goats very easy escaped on the acacia tree, later one orphaned girl was approaching that lion eating goat, not seeing danger, but the lion retreated hearing voices of other people. But it seems that lion was considered as very dangerous animal.
According to that book Hadjarai believe that they convert into panther after death, but old people and famous warriors into lions.
In the movie Prey (2007)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odVKNBp966U
lions eat people.
Another encounter of lion, also fictious, in the film In Desert and Wilderness based on the book from 1912:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXQefoFoU1Q&list=PL7851CC2A8EA10898&index=12
6:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r34W-87Kp8
43:31

 

[Coronatus]

Interesting graphic with Wolves at the bottom. Has anybody a statistic for the number of attacks/fatalities by domestic dogs?
But back to lions. I wonder how much Hollywood has to answer for in all this "bloodthirsty slavering man killing beasts"?
Here is a much more realistic encounter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41-TxkzigQ

NB. No humans OR Cats were hurt in the making of this clip.

 

[locustella]

This is unbelievable. Exactly like my deceased cat. But all these films might be taken with the same group of lions or lions accustomed to tourists.

 

[Chris D]

Great thread. Please add more. Great English. Such an important language to write in.......... Each time I form an idea about this subject - I pause and delete. Economics rule the world. Brutal but true. I love parks and preservation. They must either pay their own way or speak to the soul of a people / country - to continue preservation..... Easy to say from California. Pivotal times.................

 

[rosbifs]

sick and twisted individuals.

When fox hunting was banned there were no detrimental consequences to conservation, people, villages etc, partly because the hunts still go ahead (both legally in the form of drag hunts and illegally). Even if they didn't, UK conservation and the rural economy etc. would be no worse off. The same would not be true if trophy hunting was banned across Africa for a plethora of reasons, many outlined in the posts above.

On the subject of wolf fatalities I would seriously question the reliability of statistics gathered between the period of 1362-1918. I wonder how many death by dragon or sea serpent were recorded in the same time frame!

Sick and twisted because it doesn't conform to your beliefs. When you live in a village/rural community the 'norms' are not the same. I lived in a rural community in England until moving to a town (40 years ago now) and returned to a rural mountain village, in France, 10 years ago.

As a bird watcher and not someone who shoots - here its boar, izard, deer main targets, further down the mountains its boar/deer/pigeon, at the coast its duck/waders/pigeon I guess - I am in a minority - in Leeds the hunter would be in the minority. There was a hunting/fishing festival in the village yesterday and excluding children they had 1,800 paying visitors (probably 4,500 in total - we have a village population of about 1,700 swelled by tourists at the moment). Whether i agree with it or not what gives me the right to impose my views - I can try and show photos. These communities thrive on tradition - they are not sick or twisted because they enjoy hunting -they are just not the same as us - there are a lot more sick and twisted things going on in the world. Did you read the 'we don't cry for lions post'? Its true this dentist has been hounded for killing a lion but governments are supporting acts far worse against humans round the world - how do you compute that?

Properly controlled and governed is different to banning. How can someone in London, Leeds, Paris or where ever tell someone in my village or Africa to stop doing something because it doesn't conform to a comfortable 'office' or town city lifestyle. On the other hand doing something to excess is different eg Malta, Bantumi (not been to either) Ebro (all you hear is gunshots in October).

Also decisions shouldn't be made on purely economical grounds.

Fortunately dragons have now been erradicated. The point of the wolf figures, however inaccurate, is that it is more than 0 - which was stated in another post. There will always be risk with predators which is fine as long as you are not the one affected directly or indirectly by a 'loss'.

 

[Robin Edwards]

The argument that urban folk don't represent the needs of rural folk is somewhat lost on me having lived in a village all my life and amongst rural sorts but never feeling like I have to destroy something to get my kicks.
Killing wildlife simply because you can and you find it fun requires imo a psychopathic gene that isn't confined to village idiots.
Supplementing rural food source from sustainable species is very different from wild animals that need all the help they can get to prevent extinction in our children's life time, if not our own.

 

[Mike Richardson]

Sick and twisted because it doesn't conform to your beliefs. When you live in a village/rural community the 'norms' are not the same. I lived in a rural community in England until moving to a town (40 years ago now) and returned to a rural mountain village, in France, 10 years ago.

I would argue that killing any creature purely for fun is sick and twisted regardless of background, culture, religion or postcode.

Just to be clear I have absolutely no problem with people hunting for food so long as the animal is killed humanely and the harvest is sustainable. I also except animals can be hunted for several other reasons e.g. control of invasive species.

However, hunting foxes with hounds for no other reason than fun is sick and twisted whether you live in a hamlet in the Yorkshire Dales or the middle of Leeds. There is absolutely no reason to hunt foxes with dogs other than to satisfy blood lust. Furthermore, unlike trophy hunting it does not benefit conservation or anything else for that matter.

 

[pratincol]

I beg to differ Rosbifs.If anyone who finds killing animals for fun, is not sick or twisted, then what are they?
I spent many years working with special needs kids:bullies,often violent,and unable to conform to the norms of society.I was never surprised when I learnt that some were unkind to animals-it was just an extension of their bullying and unpleasant behaviour to other children and adults.
The last child I worked with had to be separated from the rest of the class or closely monitored, since he was prone to hitting out,often for no good reason.
I used to talk to him about my cat.He decided he wanted one.What he desired he got-his Mum always caved in to his wishes.
After a few weeks I asked his long- suffering mother about the cat.
'Oh we had to get rid of it.Joe was torturing it and being cruel',she told me.
I wasn't really surprised if I'm honest.
Remember to google 'wildcru' to find the Oxford University website to donate to the lion conservation project.

 

[string boozel]

When this thread started I was outraged that some blood thirsty character had lured an animal out of a projected area and subjected it to a lingering and painful death and to be honest I still am. What has changed for me is the confirmation that all animals seem to have a monetary value attached to them and their survival depends on that. The problem for conservationists seems to be in the proving that the wildlife is worth more alive than it is dead. If a live elephant or tiger is worth more than the value of its body parts then the poaching industry becomes nonsensical at a financial level.

I'm always only to happy to vault into the saddle of my moral high horse whenever I hear about the excesses of illegal hunters and go charging off into battle but it seems I may have to rein my anger in. Given that managed hunting seems to offer the best hope for the long term survival of some species I may have to swallow my objections to legal hunting. I feel a bit like I imagine FDR and Winston must have felt when they had to cosy up to Uncle Joe but it seems necessity sometimes makes for strange bedfellows. The idealist in me hates recreational killing but the realists accepts the unpleasant possibility that it may be necessary.

James.

 

[ptickner]

Interesting graphic with Wolves at the bottom.

I would be surprised if the number of wolf attack fatalities is even as high as 10. In North America there has been a grand total of 2 recorded fatal wolf attacks ever, one in Saskatchewan in 2005, and one in Alaska in 2010. The one in Alaska happened near where I spend a lot of time working, and the circumstances were quite preventable. It was winter time, and there had been a young pack of wolves roaming around the town of Chignik, and residents were warned to be careful. A young visiting school teacher went out alone for a jog, with headphones, and was unfortunately attacked and killed.

Sorry to get off topic...

 

[SteveTS]

I would be surprised if the number of wolf attack fatalities is even as high as 10.

Ten is a nice round sum beloved of statisticians and illustrators ; clearly less than 10 in some years, and more than 10 in others.

With apologies to wolf lovers (myself included) and those who may think that 'the wolf would never do that' I've attached the 2002 report of wolf attacks on humans by John Linnell and others.

See page 26, 200 killed in predatory attacks 1986-1995, Bihar State, India, and during 8 months in 1996, 76 attacks, 50 fatal.

Interesting reading, do read it before posting 'yeah but' comment. Best wishes,

 

[Coronatus]

I am sure I have read that before on here recently but it is worth a 2nd read.
Too much to take in all at once so I have also saved it.
I found page 16, 4.3 interesting too.
The 'problem' in India is habitat degradation leading to unavoidable contact and conflict. High density, high incidence. It has always been the same with Tiger and Bears too. But as the reports authors comment, don't forget the dangers from herbivores too. It makes the poor maligned wolf seem positively angelic!

 

[SteveTS]

And don't worry about wolf attacks. There is not one recorded incident of a healthy wolf killing a human.

6th August, :smoke:

 

[Coronatus]

It appears I was misinformed. I will seek out the source.

 

[ptickner]

Samandag - Thank you for the link to the Linnell, et al. report. I hadn't seen it, and it made for very interesting reading. I consider myself very lucky to be able to spend significant amounts of time in an area heavily populated by wolves. I've had dozens of encounters, from young ones approaching me like a curious puppy, with me almost certainly being the first human that they've seen, to having others have lay down fairly close by, apparently content to just watch me. The vast majority of my encounters are brief, with the wolves quietly and rapidly disappearing into the vegetation. While I've never felt threatened, I have a strong respect for what they would be capable of doing, having seen a single wolf pull down and kill a full grown caribou.

While I do consider myself a wolf lover, and I generally feel very safe in their environment, I still wouldn't turn my back on one if I could help it!

 

[Acrocephalus]

Trophy hunting, conservation, livelihood and more

In this article in the New York Times, published 2 days ago: A Hunting Ban Saps a Village’s Livelihood.

 

[rosbifs]

While I do consider myself a wolf lover, and I generally feel very safe in their environment, I still wouldn't turn my back on one if I could help it!

let's hope you get to a thousand posts....

 

[rosbifs]

In this article in the New York Times, published 2 days ago: A Hunting Ban Saps a Village’s Livelihood.

comes up time and time again over these threads....