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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jim M." data-source="post: 1629468" data-attributes="member: 60675">I generally don't count a bird unless I see or hear enough to ID it myself. However, I don't make hard and fast rules about this, but prefer a more subtle case-by case analysis. A life list is by definition a list of the species you have, through a combination of luck and skill, managed to find and observe -- not personally identify (that would be an "ID list"). So I count some categories of birds I have not personally Id'd that others have mentioned, e.g. a few that were identified for me by highly competent observers when I was very young (started when I was six). I also count a few birds definitively ID'd by others where I have never seen the species before and prior field experience with the species is highly desirable in getting the ID correct, e.g. sub-adult jaegers ID'd by the leaders of pelagic trips.  (Hopefully, I will be able to ID these myself in the future though).Best,Jim</blockquote>