Lynx released in the Highlands (2 Viewers)

[TheBlackGrouse]

(..)

Personally, with deer populations in the UK at a high, I'd love to see Eurasian Lynx reintroduced where appropriate. From everything I've read, they are very specific in their prey, and the prey being deer. We might then see a reduction in Lyme Disease, a deer tick born disease, which has become increasingly common around where I live.

Lynx choose territories where about 1000 deer/boar live. One lynx catches 50-60 of them a year. The numbers of deer and boar are hardly declining, since they adapt to the new threat (more young for instance).

The effects are indirect. Deer and boar can't roam freely. They keep on moving because staying too long attracts predators. They avoid places where an ambush is easy (typical for lynx) and they stay away from nests of lynx. The herds of deer are larger, they stay together. The result of larger moving herds is more variety in grazing pressure. That improves the biodiversity (plants and insects) and the rejuvenation of the forest.

Top predators like wolf and lynx target the weakest, the ones that are not alert, the slow ones, the wounded ones. Hunter's don't run miles to check if a Red Deer is healthy, wolves do that. Alert deer watch out for lynx in the trees above them, an unhealty animal does not do that anymore. And yes, lynx might even cause a reduction in Lyme disease because deer are more limited in their movements.

This way, the deer and boar populations become genetically 'better', they are more healthy. There are other advantages, enormous amounts of insects live from a carcass in the woods. Red kite and raven feed on them too. Many positive effects, but indirect, it takes a while before you see them.

 

[Trinovid]

Lynx choose territories where about 1000 deer/boar live. One lynx catches 50-60 of them a year. The numbers of deer and boar are hardly declining, since they adapt to the new threat (more young for instance).

The effects are indirect. Deer and boar can't roam freely. They keep on moving because staying too long attracts predators. They avoid places where an ambush is easy (typical for lynx) and they stay away from nests of lynx. This improves the rejuvenation of the forest.

Top predators like wolf and lynx target the weakest, the ones that are not alert, the slow ones, the wounded ones. Hunter's don't run miles to check if a Red Deer is healthy, wolves do that. Alert deer watch out for lynx in the trees above them, an unhealty animal does not do that anymore. And yes, lynx might even cause a reduction in Lyme disease because deer are more limited in their movements.

This way, the deer and boar populations become genetically 'better', they are more healthy. There are other advantages, enormous amounts of insects live from a carcass in the woods. Red kite and raven feed on them too. Many positive effects, but indirect, it takes a while before you see them.

Very well said!

Too many people only 'imagine' what animals do and it's refreshing to see some rhetoric-free description of the reality of it.

 

[dantheman]

This way, the deer and boar populations become genetically 'better', they are more healthy. There are other advantages, enormous amounts of insects live from a carcass in the woods. Red kite and raven feed on them too. Many positive effects, but indirect, it takes a while before you see them.

Ah, the Lynx Effect ;-)


(Advertising slogan in the UK, in case you were wondering)

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Ah, the Lynx Effect ;-)


(Advertising slogan in the UK, in case you were wondering)

Yes, I had to look it up

 

[JTweedie]

Would a lynx not go for a smaller deer like the Roe Deer rather than the Red Deer (excluding younger animals). It's the Red Deer population that is booming.

I read that it's been calculated that the Highlands (although it might have been just the Cairngorms) could accommodate about 400 lynx.

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Very well said!

Too many people only 'imagine' what animals do and it's refreshing to see some rhetoric-free description of the reality of it.

Thanks!

In fact, since we have Wolves in the Netherlands, the behavioral effects on Red Deer, Roe Deer, Fallow Deer, Wild Boar, Highland Cattle are clearly visible.

Six years ago I had to convince a forester that wolves were in his area. Being there for a week I noticed some changes in behavior and size of the herds. For instance, an extremely compact large herd of Red Deer (young deer in the center for protection) crossing a heath field at full speed in the middle of the day (no other people around). They never did that, 5 differences: large compact herd, young in center, full speed, midday. If they crossed a field in daylight (rare event) it was a small slow moving herd, adult and young deer were everywhere, not compact at all.

Didn't see the Wolves but it was obvious. Admittedly it took me days to have enough data. It was the first sign of the presence of Wolves.

 

[JTweedie]

I don't know how scientific it was, but I read a book a few years back by Jim Crumley and he was saying that the Red Deer that live in forests in mainland Europe tended to have stronger individuals when wolves were around, compared with those that live on Scottish moorland and treeless hills. The deer were constantly on the move to avoid the wolves, and through predation the population in general was composed of stronger, fitter animals.

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

I don't know how scientific it was, but I read a book a few years back by Jim Crumley and he was saying that the Red Deer that live in forests in mainland Europe tended to have stronger individuals when wolves were around, compared with those that live on Scottish moorland and treeless hills. The deer were constantly on the move to avoid the wolves, and through predation the population in general was composed of stronger, fitter animals.

Correct!

Two years ago, I was just too late (there were eye-witnesses) to see a wolf pack chasing a herd of Red Deer for miles in the Veluwe (our largest forest). After a while one of the young deer stumbled (probably tired) and the wolves attacked it. There were a few deer calves in the herd, the healthy ones kept on running and the herd got away. That's evolution.

For the ones who get worried, the wolves didn't even look at the humans, they were busy

 

[jurek]

lynx would be a much more realistic danger to pets and poultry.

In Europe, lynx rarely attack small livestock (goats and sheep) and I never heard of wild lynxes attacking poultry or pets. Some freshly released lynxes did attack chicken and were easily recaptured.

Would a lynx not go for a smaller deer like the Roe Deer rather than the Red Deer (excluding younger animals). It's the Red Deer population that is booming.

Eurasian lynx regularly hunts calves of Red Deer and adult Roe Deer and Chamois (latter of course absent in Britain). I presume when it becomes established in Britain, it would happily hunt exotic deer e.g. Muntjac.

Lynxes have also a habit of killing smaller carnivores like foxes, without eating them. Lynxes suppressing smaller carnivores may actually more than compensate killing of prey by Lynxes. There is even a term for it, called 'mesopredator release' although it was not studied specifically among European lynx and smaller carnivores.

There are other advantages, enormous amounts of insects live from a carcass in the woods. Red kite and raven feed on them too. Many positive effects, but indirect, it takes a while before you see them.

My personal theory (no hard data here) is that wild carnivores leaving carcasses or ungulates were naturally the main force supporting populations of birds of prey in Europe in winter. The main cause of mortality of birds of prey (besides humans) is starvation in winter, especially starvation of young birds. This prompted e.g. Sweden to establish supplementary feeding places for eagles, which was successful in increasing population of eagles. Birds of prey very much like to scavenge on kills of carnivores.

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

In Europe, lynx rarely attack small livestock (goats and sheep) and I never heard of wild lynxes attacking poultry or pets. Some freshly released lynxes did attack chicken and were easily recaptured.


Eurasian lynx regularly hunts calves of Red Deer and adult Roe Deer and Chamois (latter of course absent in Britain). I presume when it becomes established in Britain, it would happily hunt exotic deer e.g. Muntjac.

Lynxes have also a habit of killing smaller carnivores like foxes, without eating them. Lynxes suppressing smaller carnivores may actually more than compensate killing of prey by Lynxes. There is even a term for it, called 'mesopredator release' although it was not studied specifically among European lynx and smaller carnivores.


My personal theory (no hard data here) is that wild carnivores leaving carcasses or ungulates were naturally the main force supporting populations of birds of prey in Europe in winter. The main cause of mortality of birds of prey (besides humans) is starvation in winter, especially starvation of young birds. This prompted e.g. Sweden to establish supplementary feeding places for eagles, which was successful in increasing population of eagles. Birds of prey very much like to scavenge on kills of carnivores.

Think you have a valid point about the carcasses. With the upcoming rewilding in Europe there will be areas where we can test this, if they know the numbers of raptors before the arrival of the top predators.

And another surprising one, in Belarus a lynx may kill up to 25 wolves a year (some adults and a few nests with pups).

In a one on one fight the lynx wins easily. This encounter did not end well for the wolf...



Vadim Sidorovich 2017: ''The lynx threw the wolf on its back, attacking it’s belly. Obviously, the lynx won the fight and most likely the wolf died from his injuries. Before the fight we photographed this easily recognizable wolf frequently, five minutes after the fight the clearly wounded wolf was photographed one more last time.''

 

[Trinovid]

My personal theory (no hard data here) is that wild carnivores leaving carcasses or ungulates were naturally the main force supporting populations of birds of prey in Europe in winter. The main cause of mortality of birds of prey (besides humans) is starvation in winter, especially starvation of young birds. This prompted e.g. Sweden to establish supplementary feeding places for eagles, which was successful in increasing population of eagles. Birds of prey very much like to scavenge on kills of carnivores.

I've heard lots of complaints about wolves just killing for the sake of it, but it's generally by people who don't see their cycles of movement. One winter we had a large number of caribou coming through the area in the part of Alaska I was in at the time and a caribou got killed, then lightly snacked upon before being left for the snow to cover up. Lots of complaints heard over that one, but about 4-6 weeks later as the wolves were on their return cycle, all of a sudden, nothing left for the ravens and foxes to eat off of anymore. The area around the carcass was nothing but wolf tracks in probably a 30 foot radius, and I was only able to identify a couple of hairs, but no bone bits or anything else at all. When natural predators overkill, all they're doing is putting food in the cupboard for later, and feeding the neighbors too until their return.

 

[aeshna5]

Would a lynx not go for a smaller deer like the Roe Deer rather than the Red Deer (excluding younger animals). It's the Red Deer population that is booming.

I read that it's been calculated that the Highlands (although it might have been just the Cairngorms) could accommodate about 400 lynx.

I think the populations of all UK deer are booming!

 

[Trinovid]

I think the populations of all UK deer are booming!

Might even be safe to say that with reductions in both predator and hunting activities, deer are starting to die mostly by getting hit by cars.

 

[JTweedie]

I think the populations of all UK deer are booming!

Indeed but in the Scottish uplands it's the Red Deer that dominates, particularly on open hillsides. I'm sure there'll be Roe Deer in the woodland though, where it exists (such as where these Lynx were released).

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Reading the replies from people who actually have Lynx and other top predators is fascinating. Also good to hear genuine observations from people rather than ill informed guesses.

In the UK we have no top predators such as wolves or Lynx. They were killed centuries ago.
Our native deer is Red deer, plus Roe, Muntjac, Fallow, and others I can't immediately recall introduced by land owners over hundreds of years.
A report possibly 10 years ago said we had the largest population of deer 'for a thousand years'... as we have nothing to control them naturally.
There is talk of re-wilding and trying to reintroduce Lynx, and possibly is happening in the forests the other end of the country from my home under controlled conditions.

What inevitably happens when there is any talk of such reintroduction of previously indigenous species such as Lynx is an immediate ill informed very loud reaction rather than an informed discussion of the real effects - both positive and negative - of such a move.
Hearing real observations from people here is a refreshing change and fascinating.
Thank you!

 

[Jos Stratford]

Though sheep taking is very rare in the Baltic States (as mentioned, largely due to the rarity of sheep being reared), it does happen in some other countries where sheep numbers are high. In the example of Scotland or Wales, where sheep are exceptionally abundant, I would think it realistic to expect some limited predation of sheep and any serious program to reintroduce Lynx to the UK should acknowledge that and have a compensation scheme in place to avoid the inevitable backlash. I would hope strong public education, including highlighting the level of incidence of sheep predation in various countries (this actually pointing to the relative rarity of it), would reduce opposition to the introduction.

 

[Thrupenney Bit]

Though sheep taking is very rare in the Baltic States (as mentioned, largely due to the rarity of sheep being reared), it does happen in some other countries where sheep numbers are high. In the example of Scotland or Wales, where sheep are exceptionally abundant, I would think it realistic to expect some limited predation of sheep and any serious program to reintroduce Lynx to the UK should acknowledge that and have a compensation scheme in place to avoid the inevitable backlash. I would hope strong public education, including highlighting the level of incidence of sheep predation in various countries (this actually pointing to the relative rarity of it), would reduce opposition to the introduction.

Yes, education and a compensation scheme is the sensible way forward.
I live in hope!

 

[wllmspd]

Very good thread and thanks for all the informed comments! The UK has too many deer everywhere, be cheaper to let natural predators deal with the numbers than paying people to go and shoot them (which many are probably unaware of). Then the forests can return and the biodiversity, reverse some of the destruction we’ve wrought. Lots of

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Reading the replies from people who actually have Lynx and other top predators is fascinating. Also good to hear genuine observations from people rather than ill informed guesses.

In the UK we have no top predators such as wolves or Lynx. They were killed centuries ago.
Our native deer is Red deer, plus Roe, Muntjac, Fallow, and others I can't immediately recall introduced by land owners over hundreds of years.
A report possibly 10 years ago said we had the largest population of deer 'for a thousand years'... as we have nothing to control them naturally.
There is talk of re-wilding and trying to reintroduce Lynx, and possibly is happening in the forests the other end of the country from my home under controlled conditions.

What inevitably happens when there is any talk of such reintroduction of previously indigenous species such as Lynx is an immediate ill informed very loud reaction rather than an informed discussion of the real effects - both positive and negative - of such a move.
Hearing real observations from people here is a refreshing change and fascinating.
Thank you!

The UK is an island. After the break down of the Iron Curtain wolves came back in Western Germany around 2000. It was a matter of time before they arrived in the Netherlands. We didn't have a choice, and now the wolves were heavily protected by laws. The same applies to lynx, they walked from the Eifel in Germany to our country.

And then it starts. Only a few percent of the farmers have wolf-proof fences installed, even though the government is willing to pay for them. A farmer with a wolf-proof fence 'accepts' the species and therefore many of them are threatened by their collegues. It is really strange to see unprotected hobby sheep on a small meadow in the middle of our 1000 km2 Veluwe forest. This is our number one wolf area with 6 packs. You can't blame the wolves when they bump into sheep, they suddenly find a standing fresh food source. And still, we have owners complaining in the media when their sheep have been attacked. Our problem is that a farmer gets compensated for every sheep that's killed by a wolf. When they don't install wolf-proof fences they earn money. There are plans to change that: only pay farmers with these fences.

These fences are succesful, they are a compromise between costs and effects. Of course, although it's rare, there will be a wolf that knows how to avoid them. Then the government takes action. Unfortunately, at this moment the law is not clear, there are several legal procedures, it takes some time. By the way, there are other ways to protect flocks of sheep. The more friendly ones for hikers (compared to guard dogs) are donkeys, lamas, mules, big teeth and sharp hooves. Wolves don't take risks and avoid fights, besides they prefer deer and boar. In general, territorial wolves kill one sheep a year.

It's problems like this that make the reintroduction of large predators very complicated, especially on an island. Probably the most important things are to have laws about the protection of livestock before the predators arrive, to support farmers who want to protect their sheep, to have a system where farmers are compensated for dead sheep. And most of all, to inform the public about wolves, and to tell hunters that with wolves and lynx there is plenty of work to do in Western-European countries. Large predators will never hunt their prey to extinction, that may only happen on tiny islands, much smaller than Ireland.

 

[Ignatius]

Rick McIntyre wrote four wonderful books about the wolf rewilding project in Yellowstone begun in 1995. I learned a lot about their behaviour and social system from those books. Only caveat: the animals are numbered and for me at least it was difficult remembering who was related how to whom.