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Malta: Unparalleled slaughter of migrant birds of prey (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Markus Jais
- Start date
Martin Thomas
Retired student
My honest answer? Simple, clear and unambiguous. I detest the legal killing of 'quarry' (including 'sport' shooting anywhere in the world) and by kill-fest I was refering to the illegal killing of protected birds and the mass slaughter of unprotected birds in Malta. There is no justification for the numbers of birds destroyed as so called 'quarry' let alone the murder of an endangered bird other than people taking pleasure in killing. If you find it 'civilised' then your opinion troubles me deeply.
As for your supporting document pertaining to be the 'whole truth', it's a joke. I'm not sure I've ever seen such an unprofessional piece of so-called supporting evidence (including it's badly cut-out, meaningless map) about bird hunting in Malta. In case you haven't noticed, if you carry on destroying any species at a rate faster than it can reproduce, no matter how abundant, it eventually becomes scarce to the point of extinction.
Setting aside Malta's claim that bird hunting is a traditional 'socio-cultural passion' (which in reality is quite a recent invention in your country's history), what little scientific claims it makes are seriously flawed. If you'd like to read contradictory peer reviewed literature (which your document clearly is not) then I suggest you begin a series of searches on Google Scholar here.
So now it's my turn to ask you for an honest answer. Have you ever partaken in the deliberate killing of a bird on Malta? (From your post on the 3rd October 2008 "Yet there are a few amongst us, as there are many amongst you, who persist in this sort of unnacceptable behaviour." and from yesterday "I called a friend of mine who owns one of Malta's leading shooting shops". Cosy stuff eh?).
What's troubling me more and more with each of your posts is that you claim to "condemn any form of illegal shooting or violence" yet appear to be very protective of the 'legal' hunting fraternity in your country. If you are a supporter I think you'll find yourself somewhat in the minority here as this is BirdForum, not BirdHuntingForum and therefore not the best place to defend the killing of wild birds (unless you're a troll [definition here].
From time to time we see all kinds of inciteful and deliberately inflammatory posts here from egg collectors, gun lovers, rogue gamekeepers, egotists and simple liars. We even see complimentary posts in the same thread from apparently different users from the same country who coincidently appear to register and post almost on the same day as one another. Thankfully almost all of these people are ultimately exposed and I'm sure you'd agree that the best news is that the good guys eventually win without ever firing a single shot.
Last March when the the opening of the spring hunting season was uncertain, i heard the local hunters association claiming that a particular gunshop was awaiting a consignment of cartridges worth 45000 eur (ca 36000sterling) for the spring season but due to the possibility of banning spring hunting the same shop was considering halting his order. This was said in a bid to portay the hunters as desperate and anxious because the hunting season opening was not confirmed and that this was affecting economy (!!!)..........
Apart from this Gallina forgot to mention that a good numbers of hunters make their own cartridges at home and no one knows exactly how much.
And please dont come and tell me (a Maltese) that over here clay shooting is commonly practiced as bird shooting or that 2/3 of the cartridges sold, are sold for clay shooting, foreigners might beleive it but i wont.............
The maltese hunting community should keep in mind that nowadays its not just them out there but people like me are witnesses of the killing fest previously mentioned.
Jos Stratford
Beast from the East
Good on you Kestrel21, I have nothing but praise for individuals such as yourself.
Martin Thomas
Retired student
Thank you Kestrel21 for standing up in defence of the innocent birds in your home country. I'm aware that there are intimidatory and sometimes even violent pressures brought to bear on those who are prepared to speak out against the hunters.
I wonder whether the decent Maltese people who are against the gun-lovers are aware of the worldwide condemnation that tarnishes them because of the activities of others? Perhaps we need to provide more evidence and support for people like yourself to have a louder, more coherent voice so as to effect change from within?
Keep up the good work.
I wonder whether the decent Maltese people who are against the gun-lovers are aware of the worldwide condemnation that tarnishes them because of the activities of others? Perhaps we need to provide more evidence and support for people like yourself to have a louder, more coherent voice so as to effect change from within?
Keep up the good work.
chris butterworth
aka The Person Named Above
Couldn't agree more Ann. We in Britain, and the Americas, I suppose, don't realise that those involved in conservation on Malta and in Italy are really on the front line with firebombings and outright murder to contend with. The Maltese Govt., and all the others in the EU are as much to blame as the 'macho' men who have to prove the size of their balls by shooting anything that flies. Until the EU does something concrete the only thing left to the rest of us is a complete boycott of all things Maltese, including holidays.
Chris
John B (not the sloop)
Don't blame me I didn't vote for 'em
I'm with you Chris :clap:. I'm always exhorting friends/colleagues in holiday planning mode to avoid Malta like a block of fizzing Plutonium.
bobthebirder
Well-known member
Hear, hear. :clap:
Me too. Last year a third party offered me a professional engagement in Malta that would have put a not insignificant amount of money in my pocket. I declined the offer - and made it quite clear why I wanted nothing to do with that rotten little island until it mends its ways. I'd like to think the message got back to Malta, though I doubt it did, sadly.
Black Wheatear
Bowed but not broken, yet!
Agreed and I am telling all our clients to avoid the islands and intend including articles in our next newsletter.
Mr Sratford -
'But you understand how the views of hunters can be tolerated when they are in direct contravention of E.U law? And you understand the views of a bunch of hunters coming onto this forum claiming that they never see raptors getting shot?' No, I can't understand it. I am a law-abiding hunter and I condemn any form of illegal hunting. I am a realist, I won't deny its not happening but I 'm no fool to believe the numbers being thrown around
Sorry if you find my responses rude, it stems from a basic disgust of the behaviour of significant portions of the hunters that reside upon your island, along with a similar disgust that the government does next to nothing, year after year, to curb such action.
I am as disgusted as you are but it doesn't mean I can't control myself.
Mr Thomas-
So now it's my turn to ask you for an honest answer. Have you ever partaken in the deliberate killing of a bird on Malta? (From your post on the 3rd October 2008 "Yet there are a few amongst us, as there are many amongst you, who persist in this sort of unnacceptable behaviour." and from yesterday "I called a friend of mine who owns one of Malta's leading shooting shops". Cosy stuff eh?). I am a law-abiding hunter and I condemn any form of illegal hunting.
What's troubling me more and more with each of your posts is that you claim to "condemn any form of illegal shooting or violence" yet appear to be very protective of the 'legal' hunting fraternity in your country. If you are a supporter I think you'll find yourself somewhat in the minority here as this is BirdForum, not BirdHuntingForum and therefore not the best place to defend the killing of wild birds (unless you're a troll [definition here].'
That's because I am I am a law-abiding hunter and I condemn any form of illegal hunting.
I am one of many, many, many law-abiding hunters who, because of the irresponsible few that shoot protected birds, and the equally irresponsible people that lie and exaggerate the scale in order to sensationalise and win over sentiment to reach their final and declared aim of abolishing hunting forever, is finding his legal right to hunt under pressure, making me a second class EU citizen.
Look, it is impossible to reason here for the simple reason that those of you that are convinced that what you have been fed is the truth and the others that have fed you the lies and exaggerations are basing your arguments on untruths. Mine is a voice in the wilderness in this forum and I realise that participating here is futile. Good luck in your efforts to eradicate illegalities over Malta, I will not contest that and will help where I can. On the other hand I will not accept anyone trying to undermine through lies and fabrications my legal right to hunt and neither will I accept insults to my country.
To give you an example, today, in a letter to the Times of Malta, one Shai Agmon, an Israeli that participated in the recent bird camp claimed to have witnessed the shooting down of hundreds of protected birds when the daily camp diaries of BL and Cabs do not even record a hundred protected birds shot. Moreover guys, these are recordings from BL and CABS' perspective. The reality is that, notwithstanding persistent police presence with CABS, only 3 persons were apprehended and arraigned. Is it possible that the Police and CABS witnessed so much killing and only managed to nab 3 persons?
Something, somewhere doesn't tally and it isn't so hard to realise what it is.
Good luck and good bye.
'But you understand how the views of hunters can be tolerated when they are in direct contravention of E.U law? And you understand the views of a bunch of hunters coming onto this forum claiming that they never see raptors getting shot?' No, I can't understand it. I am a law-abiding hunter and I condemn any form of illegal hunting. I am a realist, I won't deny its not happening but I 'm no fool to believe the numbers being thrown around
Sorry if you find my responses rude, it stems from a basic disgust of the behaviour of significant portions of the hunters that reside upon your island, along with a similar disgust that the government does next to nothing, year after year, to curb such action.
I am as disgusted as you are but it doesn't mean I can't control myself.
Mr Thomas-
So now it's my turn to ask you for an honest answer. Have you ever partaken in the deliberate killing of a bird on Malta? (From your post on the 3rd October 2008 "Yet there are a few amongst us, as there are many amongst you, who persist in this sort of unnacceptable behaviour." and from yesterday "I called a friend of mine who owns one of Malta's leading shooting shops". Cosy stuff eh?). I am a law-abiding hunter and I condemn any form of illegal hunting.
What's troubling me more and more with each of your posts is that you claim to "condemn any form of illegal shooting or violence" yet appear to be very protective of the 'legal' hunting fraternity in your country. If you are a supporter I think you'll find yourself somewhat in the minority here as this is BirdForum, not BirdHuntingForum and therefore not the best place to defend the killing of wild birds (unless you're a troll [definition here].'
That's because I am I am a law-abiding hunter and I condemn any form of illegal hunting.
I am one of many, many, many law-abiding hunters who, because of the irresponsible few that shoot protected birds, and the equally irresponsible people that lie and exaggerate the scale in order to sensationalise and win over sentiment to reach their final and declared aim of abolishing hunting forever, is finding his legal right to hunt under pressure, making me a second class EU citizen.
Look, it is impossible to reason here for the simple reason that those of you that are convinced that what you have been fed is the truth and the others that have fed you the lies and exaggerations are basing your arguments on untruths. Mine is a voice in the wilderness in this forum and I realise that participating here is futile. Good luck in your efforts to eradicate illegalities over Malta, I will not contest that and will help where I can. On the other hand I will not accept anyone trying to undermine through lies and fabrications my legal right to hunt and neither will I accept insults to my country.
To give you an example, today, in a letter to the Times of Malta, one Shai Agmon, an Israeli that participated in the recent bird camp claimed to have witnessed the shooting down of hundreds of protected birds when the daily camp diaries of BL and Cabs do not even record a hundred protected birds shot. Moreover guys, these are recordings from BL and CABS' perspective. The reality is that, notwithstanding persistent police presence with CABS, only 3 persons were apprehended and arraigned. Is it possible that the Police and CABS witnessed so much killing and only managed to nab 3 persons?
Something, somewhere doesn't tally and it isn't so hard to realise what it is.
Good luck and good bye.
Martin Thomas
Retired student
The one thing which never tallied with this troll was his apparent defence of 'legal killing' but at least we now now why.
I'll miss him like an abscess (annoying whilst it was here but glad it's gone).
Ironically during one of my visits to the thread the attached Google advert was displayed. Unfortnately I think this has been raised with the Moderators before and it's something beyond their control.
Attachments
John Cantelo
Well-known member
I'm just wondering how many birds - legal and illegal quarry alike - does Gallina think would still exist in Europe if the whole continent had a similar concentration of hunters as Malta? Hunting on Malta is clearly utterly unsustainable as that island's impoverished avifauna clearly indicates. They need 'our' birds, but, unlike hunting fraternity in the UK (however much some may disagree with them), are totally unwilling to do a darn thing to ensure the sustainability of the 'crop'. That so many Maltese hunters evidently support a spring hunting season is still more evidence of how detached they are from reality. Kestrel21 and his colleagues are obviously not pathological liars, so I can only conclude that Gallina's obvious (and in some ways admirable) patriotism acts as a blinker to the reality of the situation,
John
John
'The one thing which never tallied with this troll was his apparent defence of 'legal killing' but at least we now now why'
This troll has no hidden agenda. This troll happened across this website out of a genuine interest in birds and frankly took umbrage at the insults aimed at the Maltese and despaired at the outright lies and exaggerations of some and the gullibility of others. Sorry you didn't realise I am keen on hunting but quite frankly can't see the relevance
John, 'I'm just wondering how many birds - legal and illegal quarry alike - does Gallina think would still exist in Europe if the whole continent had a similar concentration of hunters as Malta?'
how can one sustain an argument based on such a silly hypothetical question when the realities are different?
'are totally unwilling to do a darn thing to ensure the sustainability of the 'crop'. That so many Maltese hunters evidently support a spring hunting season is still more evidence of how detached they are from reality.'
You obviously didn't read the link I offered because it seems you don't have a clue about what's happening here and it is you who is detached from the Maltese reality. If you're going to criticise us, at least get to know ALL the facts.
We are very aware of the realities here and are very attached to them.
Can we now please agree to cut this out because I keep having to return to reply to you.
Thanks and regards. xxx
This troll has no hidden agenda. This troll happened across this website out of a genuine interest in birds and frankly took umbrage at the insults aimed at the Maltese and despaired at the outright lies and exaggerations of some and the gullibility of others. Sorry you didn't realise I am keen on hunting but quite frankly can't see the relevance
John, 'I'm just wondering how many birds - legal and illegal quarry alike - does Gallina think would still exist in Europe if the whole continent had a similar concentration of hunters as Malta?'
how can one sustain an argument based on such a silly hypothetical question when the realities are different?
'are totally unwilling to do a darn thing to ensure the sustainability of the 'crop'. That so many Maltese hunters evidently support a spring hunting season is still more evidence of how detached they are from reality.'
You obviously didn't read the link I offered because it seems you don't have a clue about what's happening here and it is you who is detached from the Maltese reality. If you're going to criticise us, at least get to know ALL the facts.
We are very aware of the realities here and are very attached to them.
Can we now please agree to cut this out because I keep having to return to reply to you.
Thanks and regards. xxx
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Black Wheatear
Bowed but not broken, yet!
Gallina or Mr Gallina,
You direct us to a document produced by hunters to support their views and refute all others. This you inform us is the ‘whole’ and ‘actual’ truth of what is really happening in Malta. On the other hand you believe all anti-hunting articles, documents and postings here are either completely misguided or just lies to feed anti-hunting sentiments. I really don’t think you can be critical here of others especially so, when you yourself are happy to so completely believe in one side of the argument and not the other! You can reason with people here, but do not expect folk here to be so gullible as to simply dismiss their concerns based on a document written by hunters for hunters.
For my part, then experience has shown me that exaggeration is present in most impassioned debate and it always becomes necessary to separate fact from fiction. What is very clear is the actual fact of illegal shooting of many protected species in Malta and the apparent lack of any resemblance of legal enforcement used against the perpetrators of these vile crimes. For as long as this situation continues, then so will the islands be tainted in the eyes of many and suffer criticism from all reasonable thinking peoples in not just Europe, but throughout the world. Deservedly you stand in a minority Gallina and in time the will of the majority will prevail.
Martin Thomas
Retired student
This has to be the quote of the century!
You're also clearly a good selective reader. Your supporting document is no more factual than the moon is made of green cheese. I suggest you take it with you when you go for good.
John Cantelo
Well-known member
chris butterworth
aka The Person Named Above
For those who are still either undeicided, or in favour of the hunting / shooting of birds of prey etc., or, for whatever reason seem to be 'soft' on the killers and criminals in Malta check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FKdiI321.Nuff Sed.
Chris
Chris
Firetail
Registered Member
Hi Chris,
Couldn't get the link to work, but then again no one sensible person on here needs to see it to be against such out and out bile!! What a bloody island, I for one will not visit this criminal haven again, or for as long as such vile acts against nature are continued.
Vectis Birder
Itchy feet
It was a matter of time before a hunter/hunter apologist showed up, wasn't it? It's not Jos who is unpleasant it is individuals like yourself.
As for describing your blood-soaked little rock as 'civilised' it certainly doesn't look that was from here. All your government is doing is sticking two fingers up at the EU and allowing the slaughter to carry on - not very civilised. :C
I have never visited Malta, will never do so and I always tell people the same and show them the articles of bird slaughter with the result that a lot of other people won't visit that disgusting island while the hunters are allowed to get away with this revolting activity.
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Black Wheatear
Bowed but not broken, yet!
Please sign the petition
Dear Fellow Forumers,
I have just read and signed the online petition:
"Enforce EU law to stop bird slaughter on Malta"
hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/malta06/
I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.
Best wishes,
:t:
Dear Fellow Forumers,
I have just read and signed the online petition:
"Enforce EU law to stop bird slaughter on Malta"
hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/malta06/
I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.
Best wishes,
:t:
