Marsh or Willow Tit (Norfolk) (1 Viewer)

[Georgebirds]

As the title says, I saw this lovely little bird in West Norfolk today, edge of mixed woodland which used to be a gravel/sand pit. There were two or three of them, flitting branch to branch in the trees, but this was the only one which came close enough for a good view and any pictures at all, even though they're not the best of photos -but hopefully enough that someone can confirm an ID for me? I checked out all the distinguishing features in my pocket guide and think I'm seeing enough to favour Willow Tit (the bib being a bit diffuse at the bottom, and the cheeks being whiter), but I'd love an experienced eye on this one, as they're so similar - and I'm the very pleasant situation where either species would be a lifer for me, so I really do want to make sure I write the right name down!

 

[Larry Sweetland]

In the 2nd pic I'm seeing a pale spot towards the base of the cutting edge of the upper mandible, so I'd go for Marsh

 

[paddyluke]

i would say marsh tit

 

[Harry Stottle]

Agree, Marsh tit, pale spot on upper mandible.

 

[Georgebirds]

In the 2nd pic I'm seeing a pale spot towards the base of the cutting edge of the upper mandible, so I'd go for Marsh

Agree, Marsh tit, pale spot on upper mandible.

Ahh, thanks for pointing out the spot -the book I had with me (it was a waterproof-cover kind of day!) didn't mention that, but I've just looked in my others and they do - if I'd done more reading before posting, I'd have got the right guess first time.

Thanks for the answers, Marsh Tit ticked!

 

[Farnboro John]

I'm fairly sure I recall one of our Norfolk correspondents saying they'd now lost all their Willow Tits, perhaps someone can confirm that or otherwise?

John

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I'm fairly sure I recall one of our Norfolk correspondents saying they'd now lost all their Willow Tits, perhaps someone can confirm that or otherwise?

John

it is decreasing in Belgium and North France at least, I didn't know the situation was bad in UK too. So sad...

 

[dwatsonbirder]

I'm fairly sure I recall one of our Norfolk correspondents saying they'd now lost all their Willow Tits, perhaps someone can confirm that or otherwise?

John

Correct sadly. I can remember seeing them in our village growing up, a remarkably quick decline in just 25 years or so.

 

[Farnboro John]

Correct sadly. I can remember seeing them in our village growing up, a remarkably quick decline in just 25 years or so.

More or less gone from most of Hampshire too, Mr Packham seems to think there are still a few in the New Forest (I never see them there) but ours went long ago and I haven't even tried North-west Hampshire for several years. I agree shocking. I don't think there are as many Marsh Tits as there used to be, either.

John

 

[lou salomon]

Any known reason or suspicion for the decline of Willow Tit?

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Any known reason or suspicion for the decline of Willow Tit?

Studies in France are not very conclusive...

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Any known reason or suspicion for the decline of Willow Tit?

Studies in France are not very conclusive...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03078698.2018.1631610

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1574954112001227

Not terribly well understood in the UK either, but seems that more generalist species are a possible factor (directly or indirectly). Marsh tit worryingly looking to go a similar way as eluded to by John, but more widespread (for now).

 

[Muppit17]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03078698.2018.1631610

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1574954112001227

Not terribly well understood in the UK either, but seems that more generalist species are a possible factor (directly or indirectly). Marsh tit worryingly looking to go a similar way as eluded to by John, but more widespread (for now).

Marsh Tit in Hampshire is doing OK. The survey last year showed no real change in lowland and river valleys. Only difference is that they have expanded their range on the chalk, moving it to copses that have been vacated by Willow Tit.

 

[Rotherbirder]

Willow Tit has largely disappeared from the whole of South Yorkshire over the past 10 years and even from the Dearne Valley 'hotspot' - recently designated a SSSSI - in the past couple. Marsh Tit has always been pretty scarce here so any declines not easily detected. As has already been said, realistic reasons for the decline have not been fathomed as yet.

RB

 

[Rotherbirder]

Marsh Tit in Hampshire is doing OK. The survey last year showed no real change in lowland and river valleys. Only difference is that they have expanded their range on the chalk, moving it to copses that have been vacated by Willow Tit.

Marsh Tit has pretty much always been confined to woodlands on the magnesian limestone in my part of South Yorkshire whereas Willow Tit found more on coal measures, along river valleys/catchments and associated wetlands.

RB