Martin/Swallow type bird (1 Viewer)

[PaulCountyDurham]

'I've seen a type of this bird today and yesterday on the Northeast coast (flying over rough grass land). 'Light wasn't the best, and so didn't bother trying to get a picture.

I don't think it was a swallow: flight pattern, colour and shape didn't fit, and it's not an area associated with house martins, e.g. the type of buildings they like to nest in and so the areas they populate.

I'd say the proportion of the white part of the bird seemed more than both the house martin and the swallow. I'm hardly an expert but I have spent days involving hours watching and trying to photograph both birds.

I'm thinking it must be a house martin that has found its way down to the coast and is late on migrating. I've had a look 'round the internet and I can't see any other reasonable alternative. 'Anyone else had such an experience seeing one of these birds past the middle of November on the coast?

 

[THE_FERN]

There's currently at least one swallow still in London

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

There's currently at least one swallow still in London

I saw it yesterday as I was looking for SEOs and instinctively thought it's not a swallow. Forgot all about it and was driving to the same location today, again looking for SEOs, and saw this bird again. As I drove back up a more experienced birder I know was getting out his car trying to photograph the bird. So, I pulled up and asked him and he wasn't sure either. We do get house martins a bit farther up the coast where there's the type of buildings they like to nest in, but I've never seen a house martin at this location: lots of swallows, however.

 

[Butty]

In late November, hirundines aren't remotely interested in breeding sites - so the area it's in has no bearing on the ID.

 

[Stonefaction]

Have you considered the possibility of a Red Rumped Swallow? There appear to have been a few around in the UK this month. Photos on twitter seem to show the rumps to look more white than red on at least a few of the birds.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%20red%20rumped%20swallow&src=typed_query&f=live

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

It would help if you have an approximate size. The actual colours of the bird, do they have pale rumps, a capped appearance, any markings that stand out, where is the white part that you say they have, how they are flying, do they perch on objects or the on the ground, whether they are both the same, etc.

A sketch, even very rough would really help, as there is nothing in your description that gives any real clues, I’m afraid.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Have you considered the possibility of a Red Rumped Swallow? There appear to have been a few around in the UK this month. Photos on twitter seem to show the rumps to look more white than red on at least a few of the birds.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%20red%20rumped%20swallow&src=typed_query&f=live

I lay no claim to being an expert and I've been fooled by the light on many an occasion. I could be entirely wrong on what I think I saw.

What struck me most was the white on the bird when I saw it on the second day, and it looked a crisp white. On reflection that may have just been the angle. At that point I was driving down a lane with no traffic and was able to slow down and watch it fly very low and straight over a rough-grassed field, as I got to the bird it was nearing the edge of the field where I was at, and it kept flying. When I turned 'round and drove back up, I parked up and waited a while but I didn't see it again.

I doubt very much the bird was anything unusual. The reason being, it is a heavily birded area. It's well known for SEOs. Some interesting warblers turn up, there's currently a flock of twite, about 100, a ten-minute walk across the sand dunes away, it's not uncommon to see merlin perched on a post, marsh harrier are not too far away and every now and again they stray into this area, shore-lark have turned up here although I don't think that's happened in the last few years. And then you have other more common but still nice to see birds such as a female wheatear on the golf course on Sunday. So, a nice selection of birds for anyone who doesn't want to travel too far. I've had a look on twitter and nothing has been put up, which I would have expected in the event the bird was unusual.

 

[jogresh]

It's certainly worth flagging, as any hirundine in mid Nov is worth a second look.

Do you know if the female Wheatear was checked for something rarer?..

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

It would help if you have an approximate size. The actual colours of the bird, do they have pale rumps, a capped appearance, any markings that stand out, where is the white part that you say they have, how they are flying, do they perch on objects or the on the ground, whether they are both the same, etc.

A sketch, even very rough would really help, as there is nothing in your description that gives any real clues, I’m afraid.

Unfortunately, I didn't see the bird for enough time to be confident in any sketch. I could easily be wrong, but what I thought I saw was a bird that looked more like a House Martin, i.e. small with short, broad wings and without the distinctive forked tail. The bird didn't perch when I was there, but I only saw it for a short time.

I'm going to go back down this afternoon as it's only a 20-minute drive for me, and will try to get a good look at it through my binoculars.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

I lay no claim to being an expert and I've been fooled by the light on many an occasion. I could be entirely wrong on what I think I saw.

What struck me most was the white on the bird when I saw it on the second day, and it looked a crisp white. On reflection that may have just been the angle. At that point I was driving down a lane with no traffic and was able to slow down and watch it fly very low and straight over a rough-grassed field, as I got to the bird it was nearing the edge of the field where I was at, and it kept flying. When I turned 'round and drove back up, I parked up and waited a while but I didn't see it again.

I doubt very much the bird was anything unusual. The reason being, it is a heavily birded area. It's well known for SEOs. Some interesting warblers turn up, there's currently a flock of twite, about 100, a ten-minute walk across the sand dunes away, it's not uncommon to see merlin perched on a post, marsh harrier are not too far away and every now and again they stray into this area, shore-lark have turned up here although I don't think that's happened in the last few years. And then you have other more common but still nice to see birds such as a female wheatear on the golf course on Sunday. So, a nice selection of birds for anyone who doesn't want to travel too far. I've had a look on twitter and nothing has been put up, which I would have expected in the event the bird was unusual.

There’s an awful lot of description of your level of expertise, the area, what’s been seen in the past, what is currently there, what the bird isn’t etc. but still no description of the actual bird.
I am assuming (maybe I’m wrong) that you are primarily a photographer rather than a birder, so understandably perhaps do not appreciate what is needed to be able to make an identification, especially on an identification forum.

Size. (a guess if necessary, or comparison to nearby species) Length, bill tip to tail tip, wing span likewise. Does it look fat or slim.

Bill. Length, shape - straight or curved, colour.

Upperpart colour(s). Any patches, stripes, wingbars.

Underpart colours likewise.

Flight style, high and soaring, swooping low, hovering, bounding etc.

If it perched, what does it land on, top of tree, in grass, on a fence?

Calls if any.

Even a poor photograph CAN help, though not always.

I hope that helps you to have an idea of what we need.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

It's certainly worth flagging, as any hirundine in mid Nov is worth a second look.

Do you know if the female Wheatear was checked for something rarer?..

I haven't mentioned either to anyone. Although someone else was there trying to take a picture of the martin/swallow type bird. 'Thinking about it, it's the sort of place where a lot of people go and park up and try to get flight shots of merlins or whatever, or something perched on the numerous posts dotted around. I get out of my car and walk, so I would expect other people to have seen the martin/swallow type bird but not necessarily the wheatear. The answer is no in terms of the wheatear. I could see it on the golf course and in my experience there's a rocky area where they'll fly to and look around for food. I waited about half an hour for it to fly to this area except it didn't and I eventually lost sight of it. I had a good look at it through my binoculars and it looked every inch a Northern Wheatear. It's starting to brighten up so I'm about to have a drive down there. If I see the wheatear or the martin/swallow type bird, i.e. they're still there, I'll put in on the local twitter site. In fact, I'll put it up now.

 

[Stonefaction]

I had a very late House Martin here in Dundee (at Broughty Ferry) on November 24th last year which looked very scruffy (partial wing moult) and more brown than white on the usually white parts. I've attached the photos I got of the bird for comparison.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

I had a very late House Martin here in Dundee (at Broughty Ferry) on November 24th last year which looked very scruffy (partial wing moult) and more brown than white on the usually white parts. I've attached the photos I got of the bird for comparison.

Cheers, mate. This was the question I was asking really: on occasion do House Martins hang around until the 21st November? And you've answered it. I probably should have put this in 'Bird Behaviour' rather than 'Bird ID'. I didn't expect anyone to tell me what bird it was based on my ten second view and conclusion: looked small, broad winged, broad and short tail, didn't see any tail streamers and so on. I could have had a very good look at it through my binoculars on Sunday, but I already had it in my mind I was heading back for the Wheatear as the light was perfect and stepping aside a bit and letting the light shine on the bird would have been a very nice picture of a very nice bird. 'Can't be in two places at once, I suppose. When I saw the possible House Martin again on Monday, I did hang around for a bit but it didn't re-emerge, and I've spent a few hours down there this afternoon with no luck.

One thing I would say about this bird, possible House Martin, is that it looked pristine at a ten second view, including the white parts looking crisp.

 

[Stonefaction]

One thing I would say about this bird, possible House Martin, is that it looked pristine at a ten second view, including the white parts looking crisp.

The reason I asked about possibility of Red Rumped Swallow earlier was that a photo was posted on Twitter of a bird perched on a wire last week that did look very white on the underside (but I can't find the photo which was labelled as a possible(?) RRS).