Meadow pipit or rock pipit? UK (1 Viewer)

[Tommyteal]

Not good at identifying pipits. Was wondering if this is a meadow pipit or water pipit? Seen on south coast of UK in December 2022

 

[Prestdj]

water pipit would fit better the first photo is classic water pipit

 

[Butty]

... because...?

 

[Steve Lister]

Agree with Water Pipit. Classic winter habitat, fairly plain mantle, obvious supercilium, generally grey toned.

 

[Tommyteal]

Thank you

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Tommy,

belayed: welcome to birdforum!

You know this isnt meant as an offence, I am grateful for all comments and it might well be an Water Pipit.

But I have come back to this thread several times now and every time a see a hard pipit (although I see quite a few Water Pipits every year).

My thoughts:

• if this bird was seen in a "classic winter habitat in Britain" (thanks Steve you know, I learn so much), than I see why a Water Pipit is a good=confident ID
• yes, I see quite fine/narrow streaks to the flanks (at least a Rock Pipit would say this) and white underparts too
• but the white wingbars seems to have a dirty yellowish tinge (many Water Pipits have purer white ones)
• this bird seems to have some dirty olive hues on the back. Many Water Pipits are cleaner/warmer grey (with a brownish tinge) above. Please compare to this dark/cold/dirty Water Pipit: Bergpieper auf Urlaub (Forum für Naturfotografen)
• I would expect to see a cleaner/warmer rump colouration in a Water Pipit in the first picture
• the streaks to the breast are really thick/bold/blop shaped and together with the smeared apperance seems bad for a Water Pipt, even allowing for some jpeg mash up. Compare: https://image.jimcdn.com/app/cms/im...n/1563797546/bergpieper-anthus-spinoletta.jpg . But really outside variation? I cant answer that, and hope for comments.

Again: you know, I just bump this up to learn. My question: is a Scandinavian (-type) Rock Pipit really out here? Thanks!

 

[Steve Lister]

I still think this is a Water Pipit.
The striking chalky-white base colour to the underparts is typical for Water Pipit and would be very unusual in a littoralis Rock Pipit.
Maybe my screen is not as good as Alexander's but I can't see some of the subtleties that he points out: the wing bars just look white to me, and both they and the supercilium I think are too contrasting for a littoralis.
And as I started my previous comment, the habitat looks like a flooded freshwater area which is just where I would expect to see Water Pipits and would be surprised to see a Scandy Rock Pipit that mainly feed on saltmarshes in winter in the UK.

 

[david kelly]

I saw a colour ringed Norwegian littoralis Rock Pipit in Dunbar this afternoon which was very white on the belly with a clear white wing bar but the supercilium was indistinct.

David

 

[THE_FERN]

I want to sit on the fence. It's not a "classic" water pipit for me as those really shine white and steely blue-grey with massive white supercilia and clean white wing bars (in my exp). Rock pipits sometimes show up in locations like this although I agree it's unusual.

OTOH, some water pipits are outstandingly dark, dull things and this could fit.

 

[Muppit17]

Can you clarify exactly where the photo was taken? Although not clear cut in terms of habitat split, it may be possible to match to a known bird. For example, I know a site where both species feed within 50m of each other.

 

[Tommyteal]

Thanks all for the comments. The photo was taken on Keyhaven Marshes, near Lymington.

Since uploading this post I have done some research myself and found this guide very useful to distinguish between rock and water pipit: Winter Water Pipit ID

The feature that most makes me lean towards water pipit is the white belly with fine streaks on the flanks, as opposed to dirtier belly on rock pipit with more broad, blurred streaks.

Also in the second pic I notice a greyish nape, which seems to be more indicative of water pipit. Finally, I have read elsewhere that the wingbars of water pipit are "dull-white" and I don't believe we should focus on that as a distinguishing feature.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

 

[Muppit17]

Thanks all for the comments. The photo was taken on Keyhaven Marshes, near Lymington.

Since uploading this post I have done some research myself and found this guide very useful to distinguish between rock and water pipit: Winter Water Pipit ID

The feature that most makes me lean towards water pipit is the white belly with fine streaks on the flanks, as opposed to dirtier belly on rock pipit with more broad, blurred streaks.

Also in the second pic I notice a greyish nape, which seems to be more indicative of water pipit. Finally, I have read elsewhere that the wingbars of water pipit are "dull-white" and I don't believe we should focus on that as a distinguishing feature.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

Thank you for clarifying. I thought I recognised it. This is the flooded area of Fishtail where I saw a Water Pipit on 30th November . There were two Rock Pipits and a handful of Meadow Pipits in the same vicinity, just to confuse things. To clarify to others this is a brackish marsh and one which is known site for Water Pipit.

 

[Harrybongo]

Not good at identifying pipits. Was wondering if this is a meadow pipit or water pipit? Seen on south coast of UK in December 2022

Less speckling than a Rock

Not good at identifying pipits. Was wondering if this is a meadow pipit or water pipit? Seen on south coast of UK in December 2022

....... Less speckling than a Rock, and still has a quite, prominent, supercilium.

 

[Harrybongo]

Less speckling than a Rock

....... Less speckling than a Rock, and still has a quite, prominent, supercilium.

...... Water for me! I got there in the end!! 😂 ☺