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Meinertzhagen and ernesti (1 Viewer)

MJB

Well-known member
The Eponym Dictionary of Birds attributes the subspecies name Oenanthe leucopyga ernesti as Meinertzhagen's 1930 tribute (?) to 'Ernest' Hartert. Given that I've only ever seen 'Ernst' Hartert in the literature, did Meinertzhagen anglicise the ssp name? The EPD also cites Kleinschmidt, Stresemann (surprisingly, since both were native German speakers) and Rothschild anglicising likewise other unrelated taxa.

I've also seen 'Hartert's Wheatear' as an alternative English name for White-crowned Wheatear.

Have I muddied waters that already were crystal clear?
MJB
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... earlier a k a "Calalp"
I would say that if 'Hartert's Wheatear' ever was used on the White-crowned Wheatear Oenanthe leucopyga BREHM 1855 it would have been aimed at either the (Eastern) subspecies O. l. ernesti MEINERZHAGEN 1930 or the (Algerian) subspecies O. l. segra HARTERT 1913.

Unfortunatelly the OD of ernesti is in 'Nicoll's Birds of Egypt' (Vol. 1, p.280), a book hard to find! On the net, that is. As of now I cannot find a digitized version.

However; the Eponym Dictionary of Birds have been wrong before, and I´m pretty sure Mr Hartert's name was written Ernst.

Björn

PS. Ernst Hartert could, of course, have been called "Ernest" in England (among friends, during his long work for Rothschild). Compare with his Son (Joachim) Karl that was called Charles.
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Taphrospilus

Well-known member
Indeed quit expensive here. And HBW key....

Ernst Johann Otto Hartert (1859-1933) German ornithologist, Curator of Rothschild Mus., Tring (subsp. Lonchura grandis, subsp. Oenanthe leucopyga, syn. Symposiachrus axillaris, subsp. Tyto alba).

But the error starts with Meinertzhagen (if his given name was ernesti) and not the Eponym Dictionary of Birds. would be interessting to see the OD.
 
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Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
I would say that if 'Hartert's Wheatear' ever was used on the White-crowned Wheatear Oenanthe leucopyga BREHM 1855 it would have been aimed at either the (Eastern) subspecies O. l. ernesti MEINERZHAGEN 1930 or the (Algerian) subspecies O. l. segra HARTERT 1913.

Unfortunatelly the OD of ernesti is in 'Nicoll's Birds of Egypt' (Vol. 1, p.280), a book hard to find! On the net, that is. As of now I cannot find a digitized version.

However; the Eponym Dictionary of Birds have been wrong before, and I´m pretty sure Mr Hartert's name was written Ernst.

Björn

PS. Ernst Hartert could, of course, have been called "Ernest" in England (among friends, during his long work for Rothschild). Compare with his Son (Joachim) Karl that was called Charles.
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Falco peregrinus ernesti, same person?
 

mb1848

Well-known member
Falco peregrinus ernesti is named after Ernest S. Hose (d. 1946) (see Key)
Ernest Hose's middle name may start with an S. but I'm not sure. Ernest Hose brother of Charles Hose 1863-1929. Edward Shaw Hose his cousin collected also and he was born in 1871 and died in 1946. ???
Hose, Ernest

(1872, Roydon, Norfolk, England; x), younger
brother of Charles Hose, to Sarawak as col-
lector 1893-96, mainly in Baram District and
Natunas in 1894. In l896 he joined H. H. Everett,
planting Cutch at Santubong; in 1901 joined the
Borneo Co. and persuaded them to let him plant
Hevea rubber. Started the first rubber plantations
in Sarawak at Dahan Estate (1902), and at Sungei
Tengah Estate (1907-19). Retired 1919.

Dolichos hosei Craib was named after him and
not after Rev. G. F. Hose.

Collecting localities. 1894. Natuna Is-
lands (July-Oct.): Bunguran, P. Laut, and some
small islands.

Collections. Mainly zoological, in B.M.
(Nat. Hist.), and to Lord Rothschild. Plants
from Natuna Is in Herb. Kew.

Biographical data. C. F. Cowan in litt.
Feb. 12, 1968.FLORA MALESIANA
Hose, Ernest S.
The entry in the Cycl. Fl. Mai. I, 1, 1950 is a mixture and must be replaced by Ernest Hose
and Edward Shaw Hose
 
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Björn Bergenholtz

... earlier a k a "Calalp"
Falco peregrinus ernesti SHARPE 1894, as "Falco ernesti":
I was therefore very pleased to receive from my friend Mr. Charles Hose two specimens of the same form of Peregrine from Mt. Dulit. These consist of an adult male and a half-grown nestling, which were obtained by Mr. Ernest Hose at a height of 4500 feet ; the female was ...
[]
Whether Falco ernesti (as I have named the bird, after Mr. Ernest Hose) is confined to Borneo I cannot yet tell, ...
This guy? Or not? And; Charles Hose?

Both; way of my turf!

Good luck pin-pointing Ernest (and Charles) Hose.

Björn
 

mb1848

Well-known member
I am completely satisfied with the pinpointing. Charles Hose is a known entity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hose . His brother Ernest less so. And his cousin even less. But there were not too many englishmen in Borneo in these years named Hose and who collected birds and plants. (Edward's Bishop Father in Singapore collected plants)A geneology site says Ernest Hose. Born: 1873, Roydon, Norfolk; Marriage: Cora Dalton on 9 Sep 1909 in St Philip, Kensington; Died: 1968, Depwade, Norfolk. Edward and Ernest got mixed up for a while but thats sorted. Look up First Lieut CF Cowan he was a badass.
 
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Björn Bergenholtz

... earlier a k a "Calalp"
A geneology site says Ernest Hose. Born: 1873, Roydon, Norfolk; Marriage: Cora Dalton on 9 Sep 1909 in St Philip, Kensington; Died: 1968, Depwade, Norfolk. Edward and Ernest got mixed up for a while but thats sorted. ...
Mark, and this one says: "circa 1873", "Birthplace: Roydon, Norfolk, England" ... ;)

I would stick with "1872" (until a date is found).

The "famous naturalist" (!) Ernest Hose is also mentioned; here, here, here, here and elsewhere (simply search for: "Ernest Hose" + "Sarawak" or "Borneo"). He´s all over. No (reliable/safe) Death year found.

Mark, I´m Sorry I cannot help more on this one (Mr Hose is not one of "my guys"), running short of time.

He´s all yours.

/B
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MJB

Well-known member
Indeed quit expensive here. And HBW key....



But the error starts with Meinertzhagen (if his given name was ernesti) and not the Eponym Dictionary of Birds. would be interessting to see the OD.

I'm pleased that the ernesti attributable to Charles Hose (who comes from just down the road from me in Norfolk), but I'll ask the Norfolk Library service if they have a copy of 'Nicoll's Birds of Egypt' so that I can look up Vol 1, p280.
MJB
 

l_raty

laurent raty
To answer the original question:
It's not an anglicization, and certainly not an error. It's (as usual ;)) a latinization, the consecrated Latin form of "Ernst" being Ernestus (e.g., [Latin Wikipedia]), genitive Ernesti.

Other birds named ernesti after Ernst Hartert with explicit dedications: Strix ernesti Kleinschmidt 1901 [OD]; Munia grandis ernesti Stresemann 1921 [OD]; Monarcha axillaris ernesti Rothschild 1931 [OD].
After Ernst Mayr: Pachycephalopsis hattamensis ernesti Hartert 1930 [OD].

There are apparently more birds demonstrably named ernesti to honour persons named Ernst, than there are birds named ernsti (only three instances the Richmond index).
 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
Pinarochroa sordida ernesti

I am a little bit confused about key entry:

● Ernest H. Saunders (fl. 1899) British naturalist, collector in Australia 1887-1889 and Kenya 1899 (subsp. Pinarochroa sordida).

From OD and here I can go with Ernest Saunders.

Whittell wrote:

SAUNDERS, Ernest H. Son of John Saunders, an attendant at the British Museum (Natural History). Went to New South Wales and was employed at the Australian Museum, Sydney. He is recorded in A. J.' North's Nests and Eggs as having found Sula cyanops breeding on one of the Admiralty Islands, off Lord Howe Island, in 1887. In 1889 he was at Karratha Station, 36 miles from Roe- bourne, Western Australia, when he ollected 19 specimens of birds which were described by A. J. North in the same year in vol. 1 of the Memoirs of the Australian Museum, Sydney.

I found only Howard Saunders in context with BMNH. So it could be Ernest Howard Saunders but I have no evidence. If there was a relationship father/son I have no clue. And the message of this document even confused me more.
 
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PScofield

Well-known member
Ernest Henry Saunders was born in July 1865 in Bloomsbury, London to John and Emma Saunders. Census records indicate that his father John was indeed an attendant at the British Museum. Whilst there is evidence that he did spend a considerable amount of time in Australia and in Kenya, he was back in England by the 1911 census living in Mortlake, Surrey. He was working as a commercial traveller and living with his English born wife Sarah Ida (nee Emmett) and his widowed mother. I believe he died in 1943. There is no confusion - having looked back several generations there is no genealogical link between Howard Saunders and Ernest Henry Saunders.
 
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MJB

Well-known member
To answer the original question:
It's not an anglicization, and certainly not an error. It's (as usual ;)) a latinization, the consecrated Latin form of "Ernst" being Ernestus (e.g., [Latin Wikipedia]), genitive Ernesti.

Other birds named ernesti after Ernst Hartert with explicit dedications: Strix ernesti Kleinschmidt 1901 [OD]; Munia grandis ernesti Stresemann 1921 [OD]; Monarcha axillaris ernesti Rothschild 1931 [OD].
After Ernst Mayr: Pachycephalopsis hattamensis ernesti Hartert 1930 [OD].

There are apparently more birds demonstrably named ernesti to honour persons named Ernst, than there are birds named ernsti (only three instances the Richmond index).

As always, thank you Laurent!
MJB
 

MJB

Well-known member
"MJB", while you're at it, check if the Norfolk library as well have a record of the years (and possibly dates) for Ernest Hose.

The outstations of the Norfolk Library can access the main archive databases, but there is no sign of a copy of Meinertzhagen's 'Nicoll's Birds of Egypt', but only the Norwich Library has access to items not included on that database (sometimes for reasons of value) and so I'm in Norwich tomorrow to see if it features anywhere.

Re the Hose family, the Norfolk History section of the Norwich Library has access to most birth certificates of that era. I shall enquire.
MJB
 

MJB

Well-known member
"MJB", while you're at it, check if the Norfolk library as well have a record of the years (and possibly dates) for Ernest Hose.

The register of births at Norwich Library is a summary version on bureaucratically-organised microfiche. It is grouped by season and does not include actual dates. Before I could do battle with it, I had been scouring the Roydon Parish Registers of baptisms from 1870 to 1878, but no Hose featured. This wasn't entirely unsurprising, given that the several of the Hose family moved in elevated society, and so it is likely that Ernest's baptism was carried out in Norwich, or even London. I then attempted to interrogate the Norwich Library's excellent genealogy online access, only for the various local government websites' certificates to expire and become inaccessible. Several other visitors also ran into problems that way, too.

After about 90 minutes, despite the very willing help of the library staff,
I just ran out of time to tackle the microfiche.

Concerning 'Nicoll's Birds of Egypt' Vol 1, the Norwich Library will seek to use the Library Transfer Service (£8.00 per volume) to track down a copy for delivery to my local library, but because of my own commitments, even if they locate a copy, it won't be sent until the end of October.

Until then...
MJB
 

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