Monarch M7 8x42 problem (1 Viewer)

[Davide_Videvitt]

Hello everyone,
since January I have owned a monarch m7 8x42 with which I have so far been very happy in all respects. However, I have recently encountered a problem, perhaps already present and simply not noticed. The binoculars are very sharp and don't give me any problems when observing birds, leaves and branches or if I try to read even very distant writing. However, when I look at flowers, for example red flowers in a vase that also has some green in it, it is as if the binoculars cannot return the image accurately. It creates a strange, very pronounced 3D effect that almost leads to interpenetration and it is almost impossible to tell exactly which parts of the image (only relative to the subject in question, the flowers then) are in the foreground and which (slightly) further away. All this happens when I observe with both eyes, if I observe with only one eyepiece the image appears perfect: less beautiful overall, less 3D if you like, but the separation of planes is faultless and flowers stand out sharply against the green of the foliage. The viewing distance at which it seems to occur is about 10m or more, I should try a closer subject perhaps, I don't know.
What do you think could be the problem? I repeat that it does not seem to occur with other subjects, so it only seems to manifest itself with complex geometries and high contrast.

Forgive me if I did not express myself in a technically accurate manner: it is not an easy problem to describe, but it is certainly present, not just a feeling. At home we also have a Vortex DB 8x32 and although it remains overall a very good image but not up to the standard of the M7 in many respects, it does not have this flaw at all.

 

[Viraj]

I would suggest you to check the diopter settings again. If I am not mistaken it could be the reason.

 

[Davide_Videvitt]

I would suggest you to check the diopter settings again. If I am not mistaken it could be the reason.

Thank you. I have tried, but unfortunately it does not seem to resolve. Or rather, with the diopter in certain positions the problem seems to disappear or almost disappear, but the overall definition becomes very bad.

 

[Binastro]

The eyes have chromatic aberration and sometimes green and red can appear in 3D on a flat screen.

This may be the cause of the problem.

But it could be something else.

Regards,
B.

 

[Davide_Videvitt]

The eyes have chromatic aberration and sometimes green and red can appear in 3D on a flat screen.

This may be the cause of the problem.

But it could be something else.

Regards,
B.

So if this is the case, is the reason why through vortex binoculars the problem does not occur because the lenses are less flat?

 

[Binastro]

I doubt that, but the optical construction of the binocular may be a factor.

Also different exit pupils and colour balance in different binoculars.

And different chromatic aberration in different binoculars may enhance the effect.

Green and red suggests chromatic aberration is involved.

There are too many variables.

Regards,
B.

 

[Davide_Videvitt]

I doubt that, but the optical construction of the binocular may be a factor.

Also different exit pupils and colour balance in different binoculars.

And different chromatic aberration in different binoculars may enhance the effect.

Green and red suggests chromatic aberration is involved.

There are too many variables.

Regards,
B.

Thanks for your help. In your opinion is it worth sending it to Nikon service or is it more likely to be an inherent defect in the M7 that you have to live with?

Can any other M7 owners tell me if they notice the same defect?

 

[agus_m]

But the problem happens whenever you use both eyes right? I got a kind of similar situation with my Monarch HG 10x42. Whenever I look at something close like a few meters, it looks very good. However if I look at text at the same distance, it looks a bit blurry. When looking through each tube individually, the image looks perfect and the text is perfectly readable.
I guess this is because when an object is close, our eyes cross a bit and the image we are seeing is off-axis (both, the eye is missaligned with the optical axis, and the subject is not located at the center of the FOV). Perhaps this is the explanation of why people initially didn't perceive the MHG having top notch sharpness, if this problem depends on the optical design. The same thing but exaggerated happens with porro binos, you have to change the ipd when looking up close.

 

[[email protected]]

You should not have that defect with the Nikon M7. I have had many M7's and never had that problem. Send them back and get another pair. There is obviously something wrong with them.

 

[tenex]

However if I look at text at the same distance, it looks a bit blurry.

Try reducing the IPD, which is helpful even for roof-prism models. Or perhaps you've done that, and are saying this problem is specific to MHG?

Davide's red/green observation is also very interesting (and perceptive) and I hope an expert may have some further ideas.

 

[agus_m]

Try reducing the IPD, which is helpful even for roof-prism models. Or perhaps you've done that, and are saying this problem is specific to MHG?

Davide's red/green observation is also very interesting (and perceptive) and I hope an expert may have some further ideas.

It doesn't really bother me when I watch a bird. I only notice it when reading text. Besides, it is hard to get the precise ipd setting, once set I never want to touch it again.

 

[Davide_Videvitt]

Doing some tests, it seems to be related to the ipd. By reducing it, the problem seems to reduce until it disappears.

 

[pat mitchel]

Perhaps what you are experiencing is a combination of factors= looking at a vase of flowers that is close to you ? Consider the fact that the eyes at that point irrespective of using binoculars are essentially "coming closer together " in that they have to start converging in pupillary distance to lock on the same target. The closer the target, the more they will come together decreasing your effective IPD (crosseyed) by what, 2mm or more? . Binoculars have to be decreased a bit in IPD at the same time to also allow for the images to merge. Add to that the fast that the depth of field is decreasing as the focus gets closer to the minimum focus distance. I just checked the close focus on a 8x32 eagle optics (about a meter). At that point the depth of field in soft light (not a bright noon day sun) was about 60mm. That was focusing on a point on the ruler . On a 3 dimensional object like a flower, I'd say that there's going to be some distortion taking place with the image. Pat

 

[Davide_Videvitt]

Perhaps what you are experiencing is a combination of factors= looking at a vase of flowers that is close to you ? Consider the fact that the eyes at that point irrespective of using binoculars are essentially "coming closer together " in that they have to start converging in pupillary distance to lock on the same target. The closer the target, the more they will come together decreasing your effective IPD (crosseyed) by what, 2mm or more? . Binoculars have to be decreased a bit in IPD at the same time to also allow for the images to merge. Add to that the fast that the depth of field is decreasing as the focus gets closer to the minimum focus distance. I just checked the close focus on a 8x32 eagle optics (about a meter). At that point the depth of field in soft light (not a bright noon day sun) was about 60mm. That was focusing on a point on the ruler . On a 3 dimensional object like a flower, I'd say that there's going to be some distortion taking place with the image. Pat

It also happens with flowers at greater distances, even at 20-30m. Anyway, thanks for the explanation.

The problem is certainly related to the ipd setting. The sad thing is that with the corrected ipd the binoculars fit poorly on my face due to the eyepieces being too large. The edge of the eyepiece does not fit well in the space around the eye, between the eye and the bridge of the nose and the eyebrow. Don't get me wrong: it is still usable and enjoyable, but not entirely comfortable. Much less comfortable than the DB 8x32 for example, whose eyepieces fit my face perfectly. I have to figure out what to do, I'd hate to give it away, because beyond that it's really excellent, but I'm almost thinking of selling it to buy the m7 8x30 (after trying it out). I wouldn't want to give up quality in optical terms.

 

[Viraj]

It also happens with flowers at greater distances, even at 20-30m. Anyway, thanks for the explanation.

The problem is certainly related to the ipd setting. The sad thing is that with the corrected ipd the binoculars fit poorly on my face due to the eyepieces being too large. The edge of the eyepiece does not fit well in the space around the eye, between the eye and the bridge of the nose and the eyebrow. Don't get me wrong: it is still usable and enjoyable, but not entirely comfortable. Much less comfortable than the DB 8x32 for example, whose eyepieces fit my face perfectly. I have to figure out what to do, I'd hate to give it away, because beyond that it's really excellent, but I'm almost thinking of selling it to buy the m7 8x30 (after trying it out). I wouldn't want to give up quality in optical terms.

I have similar experiences with IPD adjustments in bigger binoculars compared to the smaller binoculars. For instance NL 8x42 giving me a less enjoyable experience compared to my mid sized binoculars and pocket binoculars. Because of that I prefer and use mid sized binoculars more.

 

[Davide_Videvitt]

In fact I feel that in terms of eyepiece size the M7s are my limit, I dare not imagine how uncomfortable larger binoculars can seem to me. Perhaps I am more one for compact or, at most, mid-size binoculars.

I'll try using it for a while with this new ipd setting, see if I get used to it or not. If not, I will consider what to do. What worries me about the M7 8x30 is above all the glare control, which many people complain about, a problem that I never perceived on the 8x42.

P.S. In all of this, the positive aspect, putting aside for a moment comfort and facial adaptation, is that with the ipd correctly set, the view given by the M7 is even better than before, the focus is more immediate and precise, the image on the whole even sharper.

 

[Viraj]

In fact I feel that in terms of eyepiece size the M7s are my limit, I dare not imagine how uncomfortable larger binoculars can seem to me. Perhaps I am more one for compact or, at most, mid-size binoculars.

I'll try using it for a while with this new ipd setting, see if I get used to it or not. If not, I will consider what to do. What worries me about the M7 8x30 is above all the glare control, which many people complain about, a problem that I never perceived on the 8x42.

I have monarch 7 8x30 which is the older version to the M7. It is quite a nice pair binoculars and the glare problem was never an issues for me. I see glare and CA time to time but it doesn’t bother me. I use it much more than my NL 8x42 and I get 90% of the optical quality with much more comfortable handling. However it took quite a bit time for me to adapt to the monarch 7 due to its eye relief. It is always good to try before buy because the face shape is different from person to person.

 

[Davide_Videvitt]

I have monarch 7 8x30 which is the older version to the M7. It is quite a nice pair binoculars and the glare problem was never an issues for me. I see glare and CA time to time but it doesn’t bother me. I use it much more than my NL 8x42 and I get 90% of the optical quality with much more comfortable handling. However it took quite a bit time for me to adapt to the monarch 7 due to its eye relief. It is always good to try before buy because the face shape is different from person to person.

Thank you, good to know. Now, since I saw that with the new ipd setting the distance between my eye and the lens has increased, I tried lowering the eyecups by one position so I can gently rest them on my eyebrows without having to press them hard to get the right eye relief and it helps. I will see how the first long field session goes.

Anyway, for a novice like me it is amazing and fascinating how many factors are decisive in getting the best view. It is easy to get a decent view, but far from easy to get the best possible view, especially when, like me, you have little experience and few comparative binoculars.

 

[[email protected]]

I have monarch 7 8x30 which is the older version to the M7. It is quite a nice pair binoculars and the glare problem was never an issues for me. I see glare and CA time to time but it doesn’t bother me. I use it much more than my NL 8x42 and I get 90% of the optical quality with much more comfortable handling. However it took quite a bit time for me to adapt to the monarch 7 due to its eye relief. It is always good to try before buy because the face shape is different from person to person.

The M7 8x30 and most 8x30's are surprisingly more finicky for eye placement than most 8x32's. I don't really understand why because the EP size is not that different.

 

[Davide_Videvitt]

A final and conclusive update on the issue. I confirm that the strange effect was due to the wrong ipd setting together with the sub-optimal position of the eyecups: with some difficulty, being a smaller binocular, but I was able to generate the same effect when observing with the vortex 8x32.

Another good news: apparently it was just a matter of getting used to it (and finding the right stop for the eyecups), I now feel the m7 8x42 comfortable, so I don't think I'll be switching to the 8x30 at all. I feel like I have another pair of binoculars from how relaxed and, I don't know how to put it, naturally sharp the view is compared to before. Thank you all for the help!