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Moral Dillema... (1 Viewer)

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BeccasBirds

Registered User
I have three cats that are very active and like to catch the wildlife in the garden.

Is it morally wrong for me to be attracting birds here if they are at a higher rist of being killed?
 

KC Foggin

Super Moderator
Staff member
Opus Editor
Supporter
United States
Unfortunately Becca, yes. Attracting birds when you know your cats will go after them is not a good idea.
 

PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
ps.

Only cats roaming wild in the UK should be wildcat or European Lynx in my selfish opinion.

P.
 

keith

Well-known member
As a former cat owner, I agree with the above, my 2 rescue cats lived a safe and long life without leaving the house, why should they be outside where they can kill or be killed?.
 

mark clements

New member
Welcome to the forum, Becca
I feel you knew the responses that you were likely to get, when you posted the query.
Many bird lovers are able to deal with the problem, in the way that Keith says.
Cats, even pet cats can easily decimate bird populations.
Stalls Wren was made extinct by one cat, unusual circumstances, yes, but a good thing to know.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyall's_wren

Best and enjoy the birds
Harry
 

CalvinFold

Registered User
Supporter
Pet cats = indoor cats.

If you let them outside to hunt on their own, they are no longer "pets" and would be considered "pests" at that point.

Even worse if you bait the birds for viewing because the reality is you are baiting them for the cats.

Signed,
Lifelong cat owner
 

Sangahyando

Well-known member
As a former cat owner, I agree with the above, my 2 rescue cats lived a safe and long life without leaving the house, why should they be outside where they can kill or be killed?.
My experience is similar. While it is perhaps slightly less relevant in the UK due to the lack of wolves/lynxes/jackals/eagle owls that prowl the continent, cats that are left unsupervised outdoors are always at risk from traffic or other accidents, or even getting killed by larger predators. Frankly, if I were to own "outdoor" cats, I'd worry about them getting run over, all the time.
 

BeccasBirds

Registered User
Hey,

Thanks for all the responses! It is a shame bacuse I love the idea of waking up and seeing lots of birds on the feeder outside, but of course this shouldn't be at the detriment of the birds!

I don't want to keep the cats indoors as they love going out so much!

My partner lives a few roads down, so maybe i'll have to start my bird feeding project in his garden instead?
 

temmie

Well-known member
Can't you give them a collar with a bell?
There are also very colorful collars that seem to reduce the camouflage of cats: birdsbesafe.com
check it out I would say.

My stance is that no living thing should be locked or killed for fun (of humans). So cats shouldn't be locked, and wild birds shouldn't be killed by pets. I feel that a cat with a collar that makes noise or is very visible, will most likely be acceptable as they won't kill a lot of birds (but some other animals will unfortunately be still too slow to escape).
 

BeccasBirds

Registered User
Can't you give them a collar with a bell?
There are also very colorful collars that seem to reduce the camouflage of cats: birdsbesafe.com
check it out I would say.

My stance is that no living thing should be locked or killed for fun (of humans). So cats shouldn't be locked, and wild birds shouldn't be killed by pets. I feel that a cat with a collar that makes noise or is very visible, will most likely be acceptable as they won't kill a lot of birds (but some other animals will unfortunately be still too slow to escape).

Hey,

This is actually a very good point! I have done a bit of googling and there are a few things that might help: https://meow.hpage.com/stop-cat-killing-birds

I don't think i will be actively attracting birds though, but having the added precaution of collar bells is actually a good idea!

One of the cats actually doesn't seem bothered about birds (she's a little chunky) so maybe i should try fattening the other two up a bit! I think i'll stick to watching the birds away from the house to be on the safe side. I live in Bath but am often heading further west to visit family and had the pleasure of seeing wat i am pretty sure was a little wood warbler last weekend!
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
Hey,

This is actually a very good point! I have done a bit of googling and there are a few things that might help: https://meow.hpage.com/stop-cat-killing-birds

I don't think i will be actively attracting birds though, but having the added precaution of collar bells is actually a good idea!

One of the cats actually doesn't seem bothered about birds (she's a little chunky) so maybe i should try fattening the other two up a bit! I think i'll stick to watching the birds away from the house to be on the safe side. I live in Bath but am often heading further west to visit family and had the pleasure of seeing wat i am pretty sure was a little wood warbler last weekend!
Welcome Becca !

While I'm more cat tolerant these days (even going so far as to cat sit occassionally) , I'm firmly on the side of the birds .... cats and birds don't mix. They are killers - all of them.

I have trialed multiple bells (like half a dozen together ! :) , and still the cat in question managed to engage stealth mode and kill birds. They learn very quickly to stalk in complete silence even with multiple bells on.

I can see only 3 practical answers.
1. Keep the cats inside (they sleep for 22 hours a day anyway ! :)
2. Have a meshed (like chicken wire etc) 'cat run' outside that is completely enclosed top and sides, and separate from the birds.
3. Shackle the cats in leg irons (with multiple multiple bells ! :) , lengthways and sideways such that the maximum stride is barely more than standing paw spacing apart.

Due to the diseases cats carry, even a barely skin piercing scratch can eventually be fatal for a bird.



Chosun :gh:
 

Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
Hey,

Thanks for all the responses! It is a shame bacuse I love the idea of waking up and seeing lots of birds on the feeder outside, but of course this shouldn't be at the detriment of the birds!

I don't want to keep the cats indoors as they love going out so much!

My partner lives a few roads down, so maybe i'll have to start my bird feeding project in his garden instead?

Cats are a scourge on native wildlife. The law should be changed and they should be kept in or exercised on a lead as dogs are and not to mention the indiscrminate shitting on private property where they roam.

Cats are basically a pet for lazy people who can't be bothered walking a dog.
 

CalvinFold

Registered User
Supporter
Cats are a scourge on native wildlife. The law should be changed and they should be kept in or exercised on a lead as dogs are and not to mention the indiscrminate shitting on private property where they roam.
Agreed.

Cats are basically a pet for lazy people who can't be bothered walking a dog.
For "outdoor cats" I might be inclined to agree, but for "indoor cats" that's quite untrue, and really quite an unfair judgement upon cat owners. If I judged dog owners by the way most of them managed their dogs I could easily leap to similar sleights against "all dog owners."

I don't have it out for the owners of either species, if done with consideration for others and for the environment.
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Becca

Get a bird table with a long pole up the middle of a large flat table with facilities to hand seed and fat feeders from the top of the pole. Make sure the table area is as big as you can find. This will prevent food fragments coming down to the ground where they would attract birds and make them vulnerable to cat strike. Ground birds like Blackbirds will learn to fly up to the table to get food that has fallen. Clean the table regularly to prevent the spread of diseases especially to finches. Your birds can now feed safely from cats.

If possible site the feeder table near a hedge preferably hawthorn or similar spiky. The birds can lounge in here and hide if Sparrowhawk comes and the spikes prevent cats climbing up to use the hedge to jump off.

You now have birds coming to feed reasonably safely.

Lee
 

Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
Becca

Get a bird table with a long pole up the middle of a large flat table with facilities to hand seed and fat feeders from the top of the pole. Make sure the table area is as big as you can find. This will prevent food fragments coming down to the ground where they would attract birds and make them vulnerable to cat strike. Ground birds like Blackbirds will learn to fly up to the table to get food that has fallen. Clean the table regularly to prevent the spread of diseases especially to finches. Your birds can now feed safely from cats.

If possible site the feeder table near a hedge preferably hawthorn or similar spiky. The birds can lounge in here and hide if Sparrowhawk comes and the spikes prevent cats climbing up to use the hedge to jump off.

You now have birds coming to feed reasonably safely.

Lee


Seedspill will inevitably occur and attract ground feeders which will get slaughtered.
 
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BeccasBirds

Registered User
Hi,

Thanks for all the comments!

I would try to get a more restricting feeder but as has been noted some seeds may spill over. I also think that even if I did take precautionary measures (bells, tall feeders, keeping the cat inside) but then one of the cats killed then I would be feeling pretty bad about myself. Best to leave it for now I think!

Thanks for all the help! :cat:
 

Paul Longland

Well-known member
Not a cat lover at all but once, many years ago, owned two (kids pets - basically brow beaten until I gave in). one never bothered anything at all and was very well natured, but the other was a born killer. mice, birds, frogs etc almost every day and that was despite a collar with a bell (which it seemed to have the knack of shrugging off no matter how tightly attached. About the only thing that it never showed any interest in was the fish in my garden pond. Even with the docile one, I would never have considered putting food out for the birds it would just have been too much of a temptation.
After it got run over and killed whilst out on a hunting foray, I vowed that never again would a cat be welcome in my household and I do everything possible to deter those that belong to my neighbours.
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Cats are basically a pet for lazy people who can't be bothered walking a dog.

By the same token, dog owners are all (sweeping statement alert):

Deaf
Or they couldn't tolerate the yapping of their stupid dog all through the day and half the night, standing in their back garden, barking at nothing.

Daft in the head
They fall into two categories, both equally daft. Half let their dog poo in the park where kids play. The other half do the same but scoop up most (but not all) of the poo into a polybag and hang it in the bushes where kiddies can enjoy finding it and making pattacakes from the funny PlayDoh they find inside.

Delusional
These sturdy folks that take their pooch for bracing country walks think the sheep that run away with dog chasing them are all just joining in the hearty fun. The dog isn't chasing them really: they are running together. And its all just a coincidence if a sheep dies from shock later that night after having a dogs teeth sink into its hind-quarters.

Lee
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
By the same token, dog owners are all (sweeping statement alert):

Deaf
Or they couldn't tolerate the yapping of their stupid dog all through the day and half the night, standing in their back garden, barking at nothing.

Daft in the head
They fall into two categories, both equally daft. Half let their dog poo in the park where kids play. The other half do the same but scoop up most (but not all) of the poo into a polybag and hang it in the bushes where kiddies can enjoy finding it and making pattacakes from the funny PlayDoh they find inside.

Delusional
These sturdy folks that take their pooch for bracing country walks think the sheep that run away with dog chasing them are all just joining in the hearty fun. The dog isn't chasing them really: they are running together. And its all just a coincidence if a sheep dies from shock later that night after having a dogs teeth sink into its hind-quarters.

Lee

Don't forget the ducks ! and the hilarity of pointing out to the ubiquitous 2.4 toddlers in tow how "Ah - May - zing" it is that 'fluffy' is 'playing' with the little birdies .... "look" ! :cat:
Oh, and don't forget to selfie it and upload the vid to My Instant Space book !!

I swear the zombie apocalypse is getting closer day by day .... :eek!:




Chosun :gh:
 
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