• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Mrs. Thirion's Purpletuft (1 Viewer)

Björn Bergenholtz

Björn Bergenholtz

(former alias "Calalp")
Sweden
And here´s some possible, at least plausible, even if somewhat vague, addition on ...

isabellae as in:
● White-browed Purpletuft Iodopleura isabellae PARZUDAKI 1847 (here) as "Iodopleurus Isabellæ", a k a Isabella's Chatterer or Isabella's Cotinga
Cette intéressante espèce a été tuée en 1846 à Rio-Negro, république de Venezuela, par M. Eugène Thirion, voyageur distingué, à qui la science doit plusieurs espèces d'oiseaux nouveaux: nous l'avons dédiée à madame Isabelle Thirion son épouse.
Click to expand...
... what about Mrs "Isabelle" Thirion née Isabel Dalla Costa (born. ca 1820) a k a Isabella/Isabelle Dalla Costa Soublenette (!?), wife of French naturalist and (Feather?) trader Eugène (a k a Eugenio) Thirion (1813–1879), commerçant et explorateur, Consul de France, (in Caracas, Venezuela or for Venezuela, in Paris? see here) ... ?

She was the Mother of the quite well-known Artist (Painter) Eugène (Romain) Thirion (1839–1910‬).‬‬‬ A guy far easier to find, than his Mum!

For what its worth!

Anyone know more about Mrs. Thirion? Was she possibly of Colombian origin?

And, as always; don´t hesitate to prove me wrong in any part?

Björn
--
 
Last edited:
Calalp said:
She was the Mother of the quite well-known Artist (Painter) Eugène (Romain) Thirion (1839–1910‬).‬‬‬ A guy far easier to find, than his Mum!
Click to expand...
I also see this claimed in a couple of places (e.g. [here]), but...
- Eugène Romain Thirion, artiste peintre, born 19 May 1839, is on Léonore [here]. There he is said - Document 9/13, a partial copy of his marriage certificate - to be the son of 'M. Romain Henri Thirion' and 'D[am]e Eloyse Mahet', his wife.
- I checked the actual marriage certificate in the Parisian archives ([here]; Types de document: 'Mariages', Arrondissement: '06', Année: '1869', Numéro de l'Acte: '553'; click 'Rechercher'; open the file; image 23/31, left), it says the same thing.
- On his death certificate ([here]; Types de document: 'Décès', Arrondissement: '18', Année: '1910', Numéro de l'Acte: '212'; click 'Rechercher'; open the file; image 27/31, lower right), his father is just called 'Romain Thirion', his mother is 'Flore Héloïse Mahet'.
A myth? ;)
 
Thanks Mark, and: Well done, Laurent! :t:

It´s hard to imagine that Madame Flore Eloyse/Héloïse Mahet was called "Isabelle", isn´t it!?

Thereby a lot of texts (and even Artist Dictionaries) dealing with the Son, the Artist (artiste peintre) Thirion, are in serious need for updates! Apparently Isabel Dalla Costa wasn´t his Mother, but simply another, earlier or later, wife of his Father.

But forget (please) about the Son (and maybe the Dalla Costa part all together), ... my error ... back to the bird, to the question still unanswered:

– Who was the wife (épouse) of Monsieur Eugène Thirion, voyageur distingué, ... in 1846/47 ? The one that Parzudaki was thinking of?

Unfortunately, when it comes to French and Spanish texts, I´m lost.
--
 
Last edited:
Calalp said:
Thereby a lot of texts (and even Artist Dictionaries) dealing with the Son, the Artist (artiste peintre) Thirion, are in serious need for updates! Apparently Isabel Dalla Costa wasn´t his Mother, but simply another, earlier or later, wife of his Father.
Click to expand...
No, you don't get it. Eugène/Eugenio was not his father either; his father was called Romain Henri.
I have seen no evidence that Eugenio married more than once, and nothing that bars Isabel Dalla Costa from being the dedicatee.
 
I'm apparently lost ... in more than French and Spanish texts. Sigh!

Thanks for the the correction, Laurent! :t:

I assume James understood this thread far better than I did/do ... as today's updated Key now tells us:
isabellae
[...]
● Isabel Thirion née Dalla Costa Soublette (fl. 1846) Venezuelan wife of French naturalist Eugène Thirion (Iodopleura).
[...]
Click to expand...
One small step forward! Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.
 
Here is written:

La estampa de Thirion

El 25 de noviembre, la comisión autorizó al presidente del estado para solicitar datos sobre el costo relativo a un pedestal de mármol o de granito en el exterior. Se consultó a varios países, entre ellos, Italia, Nueva York y finalmente Francia. El pedestal terminó contratándose en Paris y fue ejecutado por Eugene Thirion, quien, por cierto, terminó casado con una de las hijas de Dalla Costa.
Click to expand...

It looks like the father is Juan Bautista Dalla Costa Poliace (1791-1869 ) here and mother Isabel Soublette y Xerez de Aristeguieta (1798-1833).
 
Last edited:
Maybe with this information here a step further to find her? But as he died in Caracas here I assume very difficult to find her dates. If we follw this tree here

Acta de Matrimonio de fecha 26 de Junio de 1841, en libro de Actas Matrimoniales de la parroquia Santo Tomás Apostol, Angostura, Provincia de Guayana, Venezuela.
Click to expand...

So his full name may the french version of Luis Felipe Eugenio Thirion Montauban.
 
Last edited:
It would be interesting to see Actas Matrimoniales de la parroquia Santo Tomás Apostol from 26. June de 1841. I would assume the marriage record contains a birth date.
 
Attached is the christening record for
María Amalia Thirion Valla on
9 May 1840 in Ciudad Bolívar, Bolívar, Venezuela. She was the legitimate daughter of
Father: Luís Felipe Eugenio Thirion
Mother: María Isabel Valla Costa

There maybe more here i.e. ages of parents. But what is important is that a lot of the data on this family is confused. Their marriage can not have been in 1841 if they were having legitimate daughters in 1840.
 

Attachments

  • record-image_.jpg
    record-image_.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 4
Last edited:
PScofield said:
Their marriage can not have been in 1841 if they were having legitimate daughters in 1840.
Click to expand...
I read the baptism record as saying á nueve de Mayo de mil ochocientos cuarenta y cuatro.

Maria Amalia, born on the 4th of the same month.
"H. L.", meaning presumably "Hija Legítima".
Besides this, I only see the parents' and godparents' names (both godparents bearing the same surname as the mother); no ages.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Laurent I just noticed this myself. The LDS computer date recognition is clearly wrong. At least it proves she exists and was the daughter of his father's first marriage. Her father had two wives and was still breeding right up until 1850. Attached is Isobels marriage record. According to Filae the wife of Luis Felipe Eugenio Thirion died in France in Commune Loiret so the answer should be in the Archives du Loiret. Can't tell you when but I think the death record looks pretty comprehensive.

BTW Eugène Romain Thirion and Luís Felipe Eugenio Thirion were second cousins! Their grandparents were Joachim Thirion and Anne Monchablon.
 

Attachments

  • marriage.JPG
    marriage.JPG
    209 KB · Views: 5
Last edited:
Here, 51-52/119.

Here as Isabelle Maria DALLA COSTA, widow of Louis Philippe Eugène Thirion, daughter of the late Dalla Costa Jean Baptiste and Soubette [sic] Isabelle.
Born in Venezuela, 16 Oct 1822, died in Saint-Jean-le-Blanc, Loiret, 18 Sep 1886.
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 3 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top