mystery redstart, Hong Kong, spring 2019 (1 Viewer)

[earlytorise]

Here is a link to a video of a redstart I saw in Hong Kong in April 2019:

DSCN9187 - YouTube

I must have dismissed it as a female Daurian at the time, but now that I look at it...
Is it one? Perhaps the branch blocks the white wing-patch completely.
But what else would make this a Daurian, and not some vagrant species?

Thanks!

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

It's a female Cyornis flycatcher, note in particular, combination of pale orange throat and breast, upper tail coverts/tail washed pale rufous, short pale legs and strong bill etc. Female Daurian Redstart would show obvious white wing patch, more evenly coloured underparts, brighter rufous rump and tail, longer black legs + slighter bill.

My initial thought was Hainan Blue but given the brevity of the video which seems a little over-exposed (?) + lack of frontal views I am not sure that Chinese Blue can be safely excluded. Await John Allcock's input.

Grahame

 

[johnallcock]

I reached pretty much the same conclusion as Grahame.
It's an interesting bird, as the uppertail coverts and tail seem brighter than I expect for Hainan Blue and the belly also seems quite pale. I wonder if that's all due to the light conditions though. Despite this, I think it is a female Hainan Blue, which is a fairly common breeding species in HK, whereas Chinese Blue is a very rare vagrant (only about 5 records so far, all males and mostly in winter).

 

[Romanlo]

I reached pretty much the same conclusion as Grahame.
It's an interesting bird, as the uppertail coverts and tail seem brighter than I expect for Hainan Blue and the belly also seems quite pale. I wonder if that's all due to the light conditions though. Despite this, I think it is a female Hainan Blue, which is a fairly common breeding species in HK, whereas Chinese Blue is a very rare vagrant (only about 5 records so far, all males and mostly in winter).

Hi John, not this is clearly a female Narcissus Flycatcher?

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Clearly not a Narcissus Flycatcher with a pale orange throat and breast! If, that is what you are suggesting?

Grahame

 

[Romanlo]

Clearly not a Narcissus Flycatcher with a pale orange throat and breast! If, that is what you are suggesting?

Grahame

Hi Grahame, this is clearly a Narcissus in my experience.
The throat and breast are buff but not as orange as Blue Flycatcher sp. , the pale green back, rufous tail and the bill shape are match for Narcissus which common in spring in HK, Hainan Blue Flycatcher should have strong bill, very round head, brown back (not show any green) and orange on throat to breast which made a contracts with the brown head, the orange parts are showing a V shape on throat, hope this can help for the ID, thanks🙂

 

[THE_FERN]

Hi Grahame, this is clearly a Narcissus in my experience.
The throat and breast are buff but not as orange as Blue Flycatcher sp. , the pale green back, rufous tail and the bill shape are match for Narcissus which common in spring in HK, Hainan Blue Flycatcher should have strong bill, very round head, brown back (not show any green) and orange on throat to breast which made a contracts with the brown head, the orange parts are showing a V shape on throat, hope this can help for the ID, thanks🙂

I'm not expert on these but female narcissus does seem a good fit

 

[johnallcock]

Hi Grahame, this is clearly a Narcissus in my experience.
The throat and breast are buff but not as orange as Blue Flycatcher sp. , the pale green back, rufous tail and the bill shape are match for Narcissus which common in spring in HK, Hainan Blue Flycatcher should have strong bill, very round head, brown back (not show any green) and orange on throat to breast which made a contracts with the brown head, the orange parts are showing a V shape on throat, hope this can help for the ID, thanks🙂

I must admit that my first thought on seeing the video was Narcissus Flycatcher, largely because of the apparently rufous tail. I had to take some time to think about the bird before I responded (during that time Grahame beat me to reply first!) However, I think there are a number of features that do not fit for female Narcissus.
1. Bill shape. Narcissus have quite a short, deep bill. The bill on this bird is fairly long and slender (especially noticeable when looking away), and for me looks exactly the right shape for Hainan Blue. Although you say that HBF has a "strong bill", I'm not sure I agree - I think they always look quite weak compared to a Ficedula.
2. Breast pattern. The breast on this bird looks plain and fairly orange-buff and the belly is white. Female Narcissus usually has a 'scaly' pattern on the breast, and the whole underparts are more uniform in colour, often with a yellowish wash. They should never have an orange-buff tone on the breast as this bird. As I said in my earlier post, the belly seems slightly paler than I normally expect on HBF, but I think would be even more inconsistent with Narcissus.
3. The legs are quite short and weak. Ficedula typically have stronger legs, more like a chat. I think they're also too pale pinkish-grey for Narcissus, which has dark grey legs.
4. The tail seems too long for a Narcissus.
5. The head seems too large for Narcissus.
In combination, the short legs, long tail and large head give it quite a different 'jizz' to Narcissus for me, perched slightly more horizontally with the tail held higher than Narcissus.
6. Unlike your comment, I personally don't think this bird has particularly green tones on the back. It looks rather buff to me, like HBF.

As I hinted in my earlier post, there is something about the video that seems a bit odd for Hainan Blue Flycatcher, but I suspect it's mostly due to the lighting, and I still think that species is the best fit for the combination of features visible.

 

[SteveMM]

Wouldn't the double wing bars and pale-tipped tertials exclude an HBF? Also, the wings look very long.

Steve

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Hi Grahame, this is clearly a Narcissus in my experience.
The throat and breast are buff but not as orange as Blue Flycatcher sp. , the pale green back, rufous tail and the bill shape are match for Narcissus which common in spring in HK, Hainan Blue Flycatcher should have strong bill, very round head, brown back (not show any green) and orange on throat to breast which made a contracts with the brown head, the orange parts are showing a V shape on throat, hope this can help for the ID, thanks

This has been bugging me so I took some time out, cleared my head and came back to it, especially in light of Steve's comment. Firstly, apologies to Romanlo for being so dismissive in my last post. Pausing the video I can make out olive tones to the lower back which I believe are real and not due reflected light. The pp is surely too long for HBF and then there is the presence of wing-bars, to median and greater coverts. While 2cy Cyornis can retain juvenile feathers in the wing, the odd tertial or a few outer greater coverts showing pale tips, I don't think they would ever match the bird in the video. I still think that there are elements of its plumage that don't sit well with Narcissus which, have been thoroughly addressed by John, but I suspect the anomalies due to strong lighting.

So, I am persuaded its a female Narcissus.

Grahame