National Geographic Birds of North America 8th edition (1 Viewer)

[Mysticete]

Ian Paulson, who is usually a good person to follow if you are interested in bird literature, posted this on facebook this morning:

"THIS JUST IN! According to the authors of the National Geographic Field Guide to the Birds of North America (7th edition, 2017), Jon L. Dunn and Jonathan Alderfer, this edition of the Nat Geo guide will be their LAST! The forthcoming 8th edition (tentatively due out September 2025, and revised editions of the Western/Eastern guides (supposedly to precede the 8th edition) will apparently have Ted Floyd as the author and that there will be "a new source of maps", which I take to mean that Paul Lehman is also out! So it looks like the forthcoming National Geographic Complete Birds of North America, 3rd Edition, due out on 2 November 2021, will be that LAST National Geographic bird guide done by this team!"

Be interesting to see what changes in the next edition. I will note that Ted Floyd is a prominent figure at Birding magazine and the ABA, and also was a proponent of adding Hawaii to the ABA checklist area, so this might suggest that their are fair odds for Hawaiian birds to be in the next edition.

 

[njlarsen]

Does that also mean different drawings or only text?

Niels

 

[lgonz1008]

As an avid user of the NatGeo guide, this both excites me and has me worried, since there's not guarantee how it will go from here, if they will update the artwork as well and how will the maps (if not the whole layout of the book) be changed.

 

[Mysticete]

Does that also mean different drawings or only text?

Niels

I imagine mostly the same artwork, although their might be some new artwork for new vagrants (and Hawaii?) as well as a few revamped illustrations. IIRC, each of the recent editions has usually replaced a small percentage of the artwork, so I expect the same to follow. No idea what that means for text though. Perhaps it's being reformatted in some way?

If it was a complete art redo, we would be looking more at 2030, not 2025.

 

[Mysticete]

As an avid user of the NatGeo guide, this both excites me and has me worried, since there's not guarantee how it will go from here, if they will update the artwork as well and how will the maps (if not the whole layout of the book) be changed.

I think it's going to be the same old guide, just updated and with tweaks to the layout. I feel, especially with the new guide Howell has contributed to on the horizon, any sort of major reformatting would be risky.

 

[raymie]

I wonder if they will be basing their new maps on the maps from the eBird Status and Trends? Surely there's no more accurate bird range maps out there.

 

[lgonz1008]

I wonder if they will be basing their new maps on the maps from the eBird Status and Trends? Surely there's no more accurate bird range maps out there.

While that's accurate for some species, especially for exotics and species that are being reintroduced to some places, I feel like others would still need something closer to traditional range maps simply because I doubt that eBird can do accurate reports for many of those hard to find/locate species like Black Swift, you can find the reports, but they aren't constant enough unless it's an easy to ID species like a raptor, wader or migratory songbirds.

 

[lgonz1008]

I think it's going to be the same old guide, just updated and with tweaks to the layout. I feel, especially with the new guide Howell has contributed to on the horizon, any sort of major reformatting would be risky.

Do you mean Steve Howell and the painfully delayed Birds of Mexico 2nd Edition or some other field guide?

 

[raymie]

While that's accurate for some species, especially for exotics and species that are being reintroduced to some places, I feel like others would still need something closer to traditional range maps simply because I doubt that eBird can do accurate reports for many of those hard to find/locate species like Black Swift, you can find the reports, but they aren't constant enough unless it's an easy to ID species like a raptor, wader or migratory songbirds.

Some maps would have to be manually edited (hence why I said "based on") but I think most species could just have their range maps lifted straight from eBird.

 

[raymie]

I don't know much about the Black Swift, is very much missing from the eBird range map?:

Black Swift - Range Map - eBird Status and Trends

The range map depicts the boundary of the species' range, defined as the areas where the species is estimated to occur within at least one week within each season.

ebird.org

 

[Mysticete]

Do you mean Steve Howell and the painfully delayed Birds of Mexico 2nd Edition or some other field guide?

Actually I think Howell IIRC isn't the main person behind the book...I think collaborators O'Brian and Sullivan are. But this is different from the Mexico book. And probably further off?

 

[Mysticete]

I don't think you can just convert ebird maps easily...after all a good guide will also specifically highlight summer, winter, and migratory range, as well as stuff like postbreeding dispersal/regular vagrancy. I also tend to think that ebird probably is somewhat biased towards areas that get heavy birder coverage. I would think this would mean that areas of the west or south may not have as good a coverage.

 

[njlarsen]

I don't think you can just convert ebird maps easily...after all a good guide will also specifically highlight summer, winter, and migratory range, as well as stuff like postbreeding dispersal/regular vagrancy. I also tend to think that ebird probably is somewhat biased towards areas that get heavy birder coverage. I would think this would mean that areas of the west or south may not have as good a coverage.

Using ebird maps with limitations for month (e.g., Nov - Mar) makes it possible to separate parts of the year out. However, I do agree that human curation is important.

Niels

 

[Mysticete]

Amazon has some preview pages for the the eastern and western guides (a reminder: the combined guide is coming out AFTER the regional editions)

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

 

[Mysticete]

Of note:

Artwork is pretty much the same as far as I can see, with the exception that Hawaiian species are now included, so obviously they get new art

The range maps are new, but are somewhat less detailed than before. Subspecies maps seem to be gone.

Text is all new. I only skimmed it....it doesn't seem bad, and there seems to be a lot more incorporation of other aspects of the species biology (Harrier population tied to Microtine rodent population levels; Golden eagles a "symbol of royalty", info box on what a family is. Oddly enough the text seems to not be targeted towards a specific level...it's weird that the term "microtine" or "molt migration" is thrown into the text when all of the other aspects of the book seem dumbed down.

The coverage of species seems greatly reduced, (outside of Hawaii). The last few editions had a section in the back that included the ultra rare vagrants with relatively few records in USA/Canada. That section still exists (sorta), however the ultra rare birds are absent entirely, and instead "regular" rare birds, such as Garganey and Ruddy Ground Dove, are tossed in here.

To me, this totally kills the guide...The subspecies maps and coverage of rarities was probably the most useful and unique part of the series. Without that information, I see no reason at all to buy this guide over Sibley.

 

[THE_FERN]

I've not got to grips with national geographic guides. Could someone give overview, recommend which is best edition?

...e.g. is it worth getting Eastern/western or does "complete" have everything?

(Weight/size is not an issue)

 

[twitcherf]

I've not got to grips with national geographic guides. Could someone give overview, recommend which is best edition?

...e.g. is it worth getting Eastern/western or does "complete" have everything?

(Weight/size is not an issue)

For me, the National Geographic guides are inferior to Sibley - I would take Sibley every time. Personally, I take the East or West Sibley guide as appropriate

 

[foresttwitcher]

I have always favoured the National Geographic having had the 4th and now 7th editions - the latter of which I found very useful.

 

[Jos Stratford]

I have always favoured the National Geographic having had the 4th and now 7th editions - the latter of which I found very useful.

This mirrors my view 👍

 

[Mysticete]

I've not got to grips with national geographic guides. Could someone give overview, recommend which is best edition?

...e.g. is it worth getting Eastern/western or does "complete" have everything?

(Weight/size is not an issue)

7th edition is the most recent edition...most of the editions are largely the same, other than updates to taxonomy, distribution, vagrants, etc, as well as updates to illustrations. I think the biggest change is the coverage of subspecies in the most recent edition. 7th is the edition to buy.

Complete I believe has everything, although I have never owned the "regional versions". I don't think they are necessary versus the regional editions of Sibley, which tend to be far easier to carry around.