Need a help with this terns... (1 Viewer)

[zachattach]

Hello everyone, once again. Pics were taken on Lake Ponikve, Island of Krk - Croatia, on August 6th 2023. Thank you all!

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,

with thanks to Birdboybowley and all that corrected me in another recent Tern thread:

First bird: with only a small black spot on the-coverts and a tiny isolated dark cap on the rear crown, this surely has to be a White winged Tern.

Second picture: lower bird is the bird from the first picture?
The upper bird is difficult for me. Restricted head pattern is just within variation for a Black Tern, but yes, better for a White winged Tern (with so much white above the eye). Do you have more pictures? This bird seems to have a dark shoulder mark, position and feeling seems real to me. If this is not an artefact, than its a Black Tern imo. (Thing that disturbs me is that the mark seems blurred with a distinct point at the end, an unusual pattern for a Black Tern?)

Third bird: do you have more pictures? Because the wing covers the head-pattern and blur and artefacts seems to obscur or even alter the shape and extent of the bill in an appearantly bad way (no offense you know). (if forced, I would opt for a White-winged Tern, but prepared to be corrected by others and new pictures)

I hope for more pictures and comments!

 

[zachattach]

Hello,

with thanks to Birdboybowley and all that corrected me in another recent Tern thread:

First bird: with only a small black spot on the-coverts and a tiny isolated dark cap on the rear crown, this surely has to be a White winged Tern.

Second picture: lower bird is the bird from the first picture?
The upper bird is difficult for me. Restricted head pattern is just within variation for a Black Tern, but yes, better for a White winged Tern (with so much white above the eye). Do you have more pictures? This bird seems to have a dark shoulder mark, position and feeling seems real to me. If this is not an artefact, than its a Black Tern imo. (Thing that disturbs me is that the mark seems blurred with a distinct point at the end, an unusual pattern for a Black Tern?)

Third bird: do you have more pictures? Because the wing covers the head-pattern and blur and artefacts seems to obscur or even alter the shape and extent of the bill in an appearantly bad way (no offense you know). (if forced, I would opt for a White-winged Tern, but prepared to be corrected by others and new pictures)

I hope for more pictures and comments!

Hi Alexander and thank you once again for you viewing and your thoughts. Unfortunately i dont have any more pics, i do but they are terrible. When it comes to taking pics in the air, i suck so badly that is not even funny. It is amazing that i didnt break any camera, yet... Such a frustration! I can see them mile away, but rarely i can take a photos of them in the air. Anyways, if this can help you, i did see Black Tern that morning, so i am posting those pics, so maybe that will help you (and others). Thanks again! Note: Pics of Black Tern were taken between 08:01 and 08:20, while ??? Tern were taken at 07:40 (first two) and the third one at 12:03

 

[SteveClifton]

I see a Black Tern & 2cy Little Gull in post #1. Another Black Tern (1cy) in post #3.

 

[lou salomon]

The pale bird surely is not a Little Gull. Nonbreeding adult should have dark grey underwings, a 2nd cycle would show dark remiges and pale coverts plus some black in wingtips, and both mentioned ages would be in mid moult of primaries by beginning of August. And of course it isn't a juvenile Little Gull. I'm thrown between a little marked (1st winter) Whiskered and a White-winged Tern for that bird (the other is a Black Tern). A few Whiskered Terns can show an ear spot but usually there's more black/grey on crown. I think the pic's quality has swallowed quite some of the head markings (in such pics white often 'eats' the darker parts). The biggest problem I have calling it a juv WWT is the lack of any dark to upper mantle, which I think should be visible in the 2nd pic. Not sure how 1st summer WWT would look but adults usually still show much of the breeding plumage black underwing coverts by beginning of August. So, tentatively I'd call it a White-winged Tern but better left unidentified if only these pics are available.

 

[SteveClifton]

The pale bird surely is not a Little Gull. Nonbreeding adult should have dark grey underwings, a 2nd cycle would show dark remiges and pale coverts plus some black in wingtips, and both mentioned ages would be in mid moult of primaries by beginning of August. And of course it isn't a juvenile Little Gull. I'm thrown between a little marked (1st winter) Whiskered and a White-winged Tern for that bird (the other is a Black Tern). A few Whiskered Terns can show an ear spot but usually there's more black/grey on crown. I think the pic's quality has swallowed quite some of the head markings (in such pics white often 'eats' the darker parts). The biggest problem I have calling it a juv WWT is the lack of any dark to upper mantle, which I think should be visible in the 2nd pic. Not sure how 1st summer WWT would look but adults usually still show much of the breeding plumage black underwing coverts by beginning of August. So, tentatively I'd call it a White-winged Tern but better left unidentified if only these pics are available.

You're right Lou, I was a little too hasty to call it a Little Gull, partially thrown by the illusion of larger size. But as you said, several details don't fit.
More images would certainly help but I suspect Alexander was correct with WWT.

 

[THE_FERN]

I find the wing shape odd for a tern, even taking into account image quality. For me it looks like this:

ML409314241 - Little Gull - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML409314241; © Itamar Donitza; Haifa, Israel

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[lou salomon]

I find the wing shape odd for a tern, even taking into account image quality. For me it looks like this:

ML409314241 - Little Gull - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML409314241; © Itamar Donitza; Haifa, Israel

macaulaylibrary.org

that bird is in its first winter and on upperside would show a conspicous double "w".

 

[THE_FERN]

that bird is in its first winter and on upperside would show a conspicous double "w".

I really included that just to show that the underwing doesn't have to be very dusky. I found (but have now lost again), another example with a fairly pale underwing and pale upperwing. I note the OP image shows some duskiness to the underwing (esp 699, 704)

 

[zachattach]

You're right Lou, I was a little too hasty to call it a Little Gull, partially thrown by the illusion of larger size. But as you said, several details don't fit.
More images would certainly help but I suspect Alexander was correct with WWT.

Thank you all!!!!