Neotropical Tanager sp in panama (1 Viewer)

[the oilbird]

Hi,

Have seen this bird a couple of times on the Pipeline Road, Soberania National park, panama. Each occasion it has been at army ant swarms, feeding in mid canopy. Not much to go on. Mostly yellowish, had a brighter yellow rump than this bird the last time I saw it (def same species tho). Size a little smaller than grey-headed tanagers also present. Call thin, high pitched, whispy, 3 notes. No others of same species present. I didnt notice the apparently pale throat in the photo in the field. Behaviour motly tanager like, though occasional bouts of flycatching also noted.

Closest I can come up with is female Hepatic Tanager (or Olive tanager...but they are in flocks)

Any thoughts greatfully received

 

[cuckooroller]

Hi Oilbird,
Your rationale for excluding Eucometis? That is what I would have thought the bird is.

 

[Edward woodwood]

behaviour and call sounds good for a Piranga tanager sp. such as Hepatic

also thought of an Ant-tanager when i first saw the pix... (fem Red-crowned)

Steve, Eucometis may be a consideration too... it's quite hard to make out the true colours and actual brightness of the underparts of the bird

 

[Motmot]

I think it´s a female Red-crowned Ant-Tanager. Call, behaviour, barely visible yellow central crown make me think it´s Habia rubica.

 

[Edward woodwood]

I think it´s a female Red-crowned Ant-Tanager. Call, behaviour, barely visible yellow central crown make me think it´s Habia rubica.

yes, I thought I could make that out too Eduardo

 

[the oilbird]

Thanks for comments.

This bird doesnt have the full grey hood of a grey-headed tanager, plenty of sightings of them, also appears marignally, but noticeably smaller. Not as bright yellow below as a GHTA, also less green (and more brownish) in the upperparts. Unless its fresh out the nest, hasnt attained adult plumage? Though never saw it being fed or begging in 4 hours of observation.

I thought it wasnt a female Ant-Tanager, have seen plenty of them and caught quite a few while netting. The behaviour seemed kind of odd as well, when i have seen Ant-Tanagers before they have tended to be fairly low in the bottom 1/3 of vegetation structure, creep around a lot, where as this bird seemed to spend most of its time in the top 2/3 of the vegetation, very active, flying fair distances between perches. Tho I guess competing with all the other birds at the swarm might have caused it to change tactics? Jizz wise it just seemed to fit with one of the upper canopy tanager species, which was why I went towards Hepatic.

I have a video somewhere of the first sighting. Any ideas how I can attach it to this thread?

 

[cuckooroller]

Oilbird,
Do a quick reply, go advanced, there is a manage attachments button, it will ask you to browse to the file location on your HDD, just select and hit upload, then finish. Whether or not the site will allow the attachment will depend on the size of the file and also if either .wmv, or .mpeg.

 

[the oilbird]

Cheers, will try and do the video now.

Dont think the call you can hear is from this bird.

 

[Motmot]

Jizz wise this bird on the video looks like a female or immature White-shouldered Tanager (Tachyphonus luctuosus) imo. It doesn´t look (now ) like an Hepatic or Ant-Tanager to me.

 

[the oilbird]

ok, have seen males of white-shouldered, before, not females I think. Will have a look in the book again when I get home. Quick search of google for images of females proved unsuccessful, any one got any pics of female white-shouldered tanager I could look at.

My only concern with that species is that when i have seen it before it has always been with mixed species flocks of ant-wrens, other tanagers, honeycreepers, antshrikes etc..... there were none of them present at the swarm.... occasionally you get an ant-wren flock join a swarm but generally they all join, and only for a short time around the edge of the swarm. That wasnt the case here.

 

[cuckooroller]

Quick search of google for images of females proved unsuccessful, any one got any pics of female white-shouldered tanager I could look at.

Yes, I have three. Two from Rio Canande and another from Trinidad. Send me your e-mail in a PM.

 

[tomjenner]

According to both Stiles and Skutch (Costa Rica) and Ridgely and Gwynne (Panama), the bill of White-shouldered Tanager should have a pale base to the lower mandible, which I don't see in the Panama bird. I don't have a photo of a female white-shouldered Tanager, but I have one of a male which shows the bill as being quite different. However, it still seems to be the closest match. I have also included Red-crowned and Red-throated Ant-Tanagers and an Olive Tanager for comparison. I don't have a Grey-headed Tanager photo. I look forward to seeing how the discussion of this bird continues.

Tom

 

[Motmot]

I´m also intrigued about the id of this bird! I´ve seen female White-shouldereds quite a few times in CRica and Panama and don´t remember bill colours striking, probably I wasn´t paying enough attention on them though. Females of Tanager sps. with this kind of lower mandibles usually show much duller colours on them than males and I guess age may also be involved. The video bird proportions and actions look fine for Tachyphonus, colours are hard to discern but don´t strike as a no no.
As oilbird mentions, White-shouldereds are usually found within mixed flocks but also as pairs travelling alone or in non mixed small flocks (maybe family groups). Sometimes they can also be found on their own, solitary. I don´t remember having seen them acting actively at an antswarm but I guess it can happen. So many species take ocasional advantage of easy foraging at swarms that I don´t think this particular species could be excluded from them.

 

[tomjenner]

White-shouldereds are usually found within mixed flocks but also as pairs travelling alone or in non mixed small flocks (maybe family groups). Sometimes they can also be found on their own, solitary.

I guess that this depends on the time of year. In the breeding season they are far more likely to be alone or in pairs. I have never seen them at Ant Swarms, but they you do occasionally get the odd unexpected species joining an ant swarm.

Tom

 

[the oilbird]

Thanks for comments so far, just back from a couple of days up with the Kuna Indians in San Blas. Not too much bird interest as was quite restricted to where we could go. But HUGE hirundine movements over the islands, 50 Barn Swallows a minute passing over during one evening, also Southern Rough-winged in good numbers, few Purple Martins.

Have not come much nearer to IDing this tanager, am waiting for some photos of female white-shouldered to have a look at. This birds colours always struck me as being fairly bright, the yellow below while not lemon was always pretty prominent, as was the contrasting rump on the first occassion. The video attached is from the first sighting, the photo from the second, some 6 weeks apart. If this is a female tanager Im surprised I never saw the male of the pair, as all observations at the swarm were over a couple of hour observation periods.

Back out in the field tomorrow. Might get another sighting and try to get some better pics!

On a different theme, would be interested to hear what species people have seen joining ant swarms on an occasional basis? Iv had Bright-rumped Attilias, Keel-billed Toucans, even an Agouti running around in the middle!

 

[the oilbird]

have just seen some very decent pics of white-shouldered, and afraid to say that its not my bird, never saw even a hint of a hooded effect, and certainly not grey. At the moment Id have to say Hepatic comes closest from what Ive read, but have no previous experience of it at all. Any more suggestions?

 

[tomjenner]

I am familiar with Hepatic tanager and I really don't think that it is one. Having seen the pics that Steve e-mailed to me (which I guess are the ones that he sent you too) I now think that your bird is almost certainly a White-shouldered Tanager. Contrary to what I wrote earlier, the birds in Steve's photos clearly have an all dark bill, but the most distinctive characteristic (and the feature that most struck me with the Panama bird) is the neat pale throat patch. The underpart and upperpart colouration fits well as does the rounded tail shown in Steve's photos. This was a feature that threw me at first because it was noticable in the Panama video, but not shown in the pictures in the field guides. The only thing against it is the head colour, but this is something that could easily be lacking in a young bird.

Tom

P.S. Thanks for the photos Steve.

 

[Motmot]

I also received the pics. They show panamensis subsp (from the Canal E into South America), supposedly the one at the Canal area but W limits of subsp axillaris (from caribbean W Panama north to Honduras) are far from clear. Axillaris females don´t show the grey hood, their heads are olive-green just tinged grey on crown (barely visible on the video but it looks greyish). I bet some intergrade occurs close to the canal...
As Tom states, it could also be a juv bird with the grey hood not developed yet. I can´t see an Hepatic or any other dif Tanager on the video, still think it´s a White-shouldered Tanager, a female or most probably a juv.

 

[the oilbird]

Hi thanks for that.

Was reading about subspecies axillaris, which would make sense, as the grey hood definately wasnt present on my bird. Birds of panama book has no pics of this ssp and cant find any on the net to compare to.

I really dont think this was a young bird, as behaviour was at odds to that, seemed to know what it was doing, no sign of any adults, no begging. Also the two sightings were almost 2 months apart. Though most birds here seem to be able to breed at all times of year, so not impossible.

Will have to start looking at the males a little more closely now and try and asign to subspecies level if possible.

Thanks for all the input, much appreciated on a puzzling bird.

regards

Ben

 

[Motmot]

Good luck!

Eduardo