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Never mind buying a bin, or loads... (1 Viewer)

CliveP

Well-known member
How then when you have a double digit bin selection of options do you decide which to take along?

Normally I've bought a new one and so take that to try and gauge it's enjoyability and usefulness.

I've now got to the stage where I want to always take two along or a bin and monocular but I'm now trying to work out which pairs best with which.

I'm thinking Carson Mini Scout 7x18 (since I modified that it's great and can slip in my sleeve pocket) and my Hawke 10x25 Endurance for any distance stuff (I'm cycling so compact is good), but then my brilliant all-rounder Kowa 8x32 SV is saying "take me, take me", and I could pair that with a monoc or the 10x Hawke and then there is my little Vistron 8x25 that seems to want to go as well and that's before I even get to the M7 10x30 and Hawke Sapphire 8x43 and it's to early still for Papilio dinosaur bugs.

Obvioulsy just a light hearted thread for a laid back Sunday but I'm kind of stuck with deciding.

Think I have to go with that little Carson Mini Scout again as I have the 8x22 Scout on the way and I suppose that will give me a better idea of things for when it arrives plus the little Scout is still blowing me away since I fixed the long focus wheel issue. Everybody really should buy one of those 7x18 and do the mod on it. It's brilliant and hope of hopes that someday some-one makes an even better version (bigger prisms) and I'm definitely buying. That big 9.3 fov is addictive. It really is the Tardis of binoculars. They should have called it that. Really hoping the 8x22 is as good even if I need to mod that. If so I can see me probably buying the 10x25 as well.
 
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Bencw

Well-known member
How then when you have a double digit bin selection of options do you decide which to take along?

Normally I've bought a new one and so take that to try and gauge it's enjoyability and usefulness.

I've now got to the stage where I want to always take two along or a bin and monocular but I'm now trying to work out which pairs best with which.

I'm thinking Carson Mini Scout 7x18 (since I modified that it's great and can slip in my sleeve pocket) and my Hawke 10x25 Endurance for any distance stuff (I'm cycling so compact is good), but then my brilliant all-rounder Kowa 8x32 SV is saying "take me, take me", and I could pair that with a monoc or the 10x Hawke and then there is my little Vistron 8x25 that seems to want to go as well and that's before I even get to the M7 10x30 and Hawke Sapphire 8x43 and it's to early still for Papilio dinosaur bugs.

Obvioulsy just a light hearted thread for a laid back Sunday but I'm kind of stuck with deciding.

Think I have to go with that little Carson Mini Scout again as I have the 8x22 Scout on the way and I suppose that will give me a better idea of things for when it arrives plus the little Scout is still blowing me away since I fixed the long focus wheel issue. Everybody really should buy one of those 7x18 and do the mod on it. It's brilliant and hope of hopes that someday some-one makes an even better version (bigger prisms) and I'm definitely buying. That big 9.3 fov is addictive. It really is the Tardis of binoculars. They should have called it that. Really hoping the 8x22 is as good even if I need to mod that. If so I can see me probably buying the 10x25 as well.

Hi Clive, I dont really have that problem, I use my favourite Zeiss 7x42 BGA T*P almost always, and my Swaro CL pocket 8x25 when I want smaller. Thats it, the rest stay boxed up in the cupboard, and one gets taken out now and then when I just feel like reminding myself what they are like to use.
 

Gilmore Girl

Beth
Supporter
United States
Having the same type dilemma myself, but I don't yet have the second
Bino. I have the 7x42 , but wondering if I should get a 10x25 to stick
in the padded compartment of my small waist/lumbar pack. I would use it
only when I need for static views like a duck way out or a small bird singing
way out in a field in plain view or bop perched in the distance. I sure couldn't follow any birds with a 10x25 or get
the bin up fast to my eyes ... compacts are so frustrating with eyeglasses. No way I can
do any regular birding with them, so it would be used only for situations like I described.

Rational part of me says forget it...the small EP is just too annoying and doesn't work well with spectacles.
Instead, maybe I need a bigger dedicated 10x to bring to big fields, ponds, lakes. I don't know what
to do. I sure don't want to carry two full size bins...not doing that.

Sometimes the answer is to do nothing. I'm not having any real trouble
with ID so far with the 7x...no worse than with the 8x. Many times with 8x as well
birds were just too far off and I wished I had more reach.

More decent switch power bins on the market would be wonderful. Leica Duovid is a brick and
was always out of the question for me due to weight. Leupold Goldring 7-12x can still be bought used , but
I read the 12x is almost useless...too much shake and blurry after a certain distance. I came close to buying that one years back...maybe I should have to see for myself.
 
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CliveP

Well-known member
Having the same type dilemma myself, but I don't yet have the second
Bino. I have the 7x42 , but wondering if I should get a 10x25 to stick
in the padded compartment of my small waist/lumbar pack. I would use it
only when I need for static views like a duck way out or a small bird singing
way out in a field in plain view or bop perched in the distance. I sure couldn't follow any birds with a 10x25 or get
the bin up fast to my eyes ... compacts are so frustrating with eyeglasses. No way I can
do any regular birding with them, so it would be used only for situations like I described.

Rational part of tells me forget it...the small EP is too annoying and doesn't work well with spectacles.
Instead, maybe I need a bigger dedicated 10x to bring to big fields, ponds, lakes. I don't know what
to do. I sure don't want to carry to full size bins...not doing that.

Sometimes the answer is to do nothing. I'm not having any real trouble
with ID so far with the 7x...no worse than with the 8x. Many times with 8x as well
when birds were just too far off and wished I had more reach.

More decent switch power bins on the market would be wonderful. Leica Duovid is a brick and
was always out of the question for me due to weight. Leupold Goldring 7-12x can still be had used , but
I read the 12x is almost useless...too much shake and blurry after a certain distance. I can close to buying that one years back...maybe I should have to see for myself.

I wouldn't worry to much about it. I found today using the Carson 7x18 was preferable to the Hawke 10x25. I was able to walk along and one handed check things out with the little Carson on a neck lanyard. I later got the 10x25 out to have a bit of a compare but the 10x was somewhat spoiled by the Carson being so good and although distant objects were smaller with the Carson (but sharper) they were in a way nicer to view through the Carson and I spotted a lot of birds I know I wouldn't have if I had not had the wide 9.3deg Carson fov.

I'd say if it had been a dull day the Hawke might have been more of use (I think it's optics are more atuned to those situations although I'm sure the Carson would still be fine as it has great transmission) but it being bright the Carson was incredible for such a little binocular. Just a brilliantly sharp big wide super dof view. I think I actually get some rolling ball with it on occasion but as I say it did kind of kick the ass of my 10x25 and that's a pretty good bin in itself.

I'm yet again today amazed by the little 7x18. It actually has to be one of my favourite bins now it's that incredible but only since I shortened the focus wheel length and so can now easily get the whole view. Before I did that it was pretty useless and even now it can only be used without glasses but since I never wear them I'm obviously fine with that. Both my 10x25 and 8x20 compacts have good eye relief so I imagine could be used by those with glasses. The 8x20 RSPB HD has rather to much eyerelief for the eyecups which really need to extend further out and means I get blackouts easily with those if not very careful. No such issue with the Carson although I do need to clean the eyelenses afterwards of the oil from my eyelashes but it's worth it.
 
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CliveP

Well-known member
Hi Clive, I dont really have that problem, I use my favourite Zeiss 7x42 BGA T*P almost always, and my Swaro CL pocket 8x25 when I want smaller. Thats it, the rest stay boxed up in the cupboard, and one gets taken out now and then when I just feel like reminding myself what they are like to use.

Yes. I have really still to workout which of mine will be the real regulars and I have another coming which might upset things in a good way hopefully.

Perhaps after another year of deciding it might be time to offload whatever I'm finding I don't use much and concentrate on more variants of what I do use most and somewhat unexpectedly there might just be a 9.3 deg fov 7x18 on that list possibly even at the top but it would have to be really good to beat this one I have. I'm actually really looking forward to getting the 8x22 Carson now but then that's down to 7.5 deg but I will keep an open mind about it until I can try it properly as I have done with the 7x18.
 
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Gilmore Girl

Beth
Supporter
United States
That's what I'm thinking too especially after yesterday when I was still
able to ID Ruddy, Bufflehead and Hooded Merganser hens off in the distance.
The 7x is gittin' er done. Maybe I should just keep it simple. Still though...might be nice
to have a foldable 10x25 in my pack just so its there if needed.

I so miss the little compacts. I had the Olympus 7x21 Classic and loved it.
But the 11mm ER was no good once I started wearing glasses. Glasses ruined compacts for me and limited my choices in bins considerably.

I have a 6x30 Opticron porro which I like a lot...it sits near the back window for viewing
whatever lands in the big oak and lawn in the back of my complex.
 
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CliveP

Well-known member
I would imagine having to use glasses and bins very difficult no matter what. I spent a lot of time today just shading the side sunlight from the Carson's and amazingly their front curved barrel shape even helps with that in that you can just rest the side of your palm against it and cover your eye with your hand.

I was wearing sunglasses today otherwise, yes I know, amazing in this rain sodden bog of a country but I just stick them on top of my head when using the bins.

Is there nothing this 7x18 cannot do? Ok I love it so much I might not take it out if it was raining. Not waterproof. Otherwise it is quite possibly the best compact I have ever come across. The nearest kind of similar view to it from my other bins is probably my Kowa SV 8x32 but I don't even think it is so wide. I must actually compare those two at some stage. I do expect the Kowa to be preferable but not actually in every way and of course the Carson is about a 1/5th of it's size/weight.

Of all of my bins currently the most amazing award probably has to go to the Carson. It's a mini magnified reality headset.
 

Gilmore Girl

Beth
Supporter
United States
Clive,
Which bin would you keep out of your mini collection if you had to get rid of all but one?
I'm guessing the Kowa?

Peeling myself out of bed now...lazy Sunday. Got to get out and see some birds and whatever else.
I'll check back in later.
 

CliveP

Well-known member
Wrong!

I think I would keep the Hawke Sapphire 8x43 (that new one they sent me is very perfect) but the Carson is still the most amazing in that it even comes anywhere close to the viewing of something like the Sapphire and I know folks are going to find this hard to believe and so would I (and I still find it baffling in a very pleasant way) if I hadn't seen it for myself yet again today, in fact they worked even better today since I took that latest mm off the focuser length.

The Kowa is the best allrounder I would say.

So these may perhaps be my 3 main bins? but the others are great also, the Papilio or M7 for instance.

Of course at the end of the day these are my choices, those which I personally prefer.

Oh and have a nice day out. I'm off out again myself before the summer rains arrive ;)
 
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OPTIC_NUT

Well-known member
The Olympus 8x21 Roamer has very smooth focusing and sharp images.
Basically, like your upgraded-focuser 7x18 Carson Scout. It's small for
an 8x21 as well. There are so many excellent 8x25s, of course, at all prices.


I'm walking when I go out, or hiking, so I can go larger.
--Fully-restored Kendon 6x30s for close woods and one-handed use.
--Outer-cleaned Scope #2900 10x35s for marsh, pond, hills, etc...

For new, I would definitely go 6x30s and 10x30s, I think.
The bit of dimming from 10x30 would diminish edge-glare off things.
So many have fussy eye-placement, though ('blackouts')
It takes extra time to scout.
 
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CliveP

Well-known member
I think I got a bad Roamer or something as although it's larger than this 7x18 Carson it doesn't come anywhere close in the reckoning with the 7x18. My sister has the Roamer and I wouldn't even ask to look at it again so something doesn't seem right.

This 7x18 has kicked the ass off the 8x22U Visionary so beloved of all and sundry online and also of my own self chosen Hawke 10x25 so I'm actually having to move up the scale to my Kowa 8x32 SV for something to compare it to. That to me is something very unusual of a discovery.

I can't quite explain/understand it yet but it's something to do with the proportions of the view with the Carson and also it's incredible definition and huge dof. It's like looking through a virtual reality headset but at actual reality. I basically can be looking at infinity while still see something quite nearby just by adjusting my eye focus not the bin focuser.

It's way more impressive than the Nikon EII ever was as I remember, although not hard as that was pretty much totally unimpressive to me.

I'm just expressing what I have seen with this little binocular. It seems to have a whole lot of magic as how else to explain it. Surely the Kowa will defeat it..... or will it? I'm not even so certain it's a forgone conclusion?

Meanwhile bring on the Carson 8x22. If that flunks, I care not now as I am happy with the hard to describe but superlatives needed 7x18.

Oh and it costs about 30 bucks. I may need to buy another (perhaps several) before the rush and price hike. I actually shouldn't be telling anyone this but I'm so thrown sideways by it. I will buy another if this 8x22 isn't even better.
 
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Stephen Prower

Well-known member
The Olympus 8x21 Roamer has very smooth focusing and sharp images.
...
The bit of dimming from 10x30 would diminish edge-glare off things.
So many have fussy eye-placement, though ('blackouts')
...

Optic_Nut

1. You could have mentioned the Olympus Roamer 7X21 PC III Classic too!

2. Apropos fussy eye-placement, I attach a photo of the rubber wings cut from bicycle inner tube that I fit to binoculars to assist in correct eye placement. They are also useful to locate the eyes at the point of eye relief. Sometimes I find that the point is too far out from the eyecups for me.

Unfortunately no good for spectacle wearers though.


Stephen
 

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Gilmore Girl

Beth
Supporter
United States
Optic_Nut

1. You could have mentioned the Olympus Roamer 7X21 PC III Classic too!




Stephen

I mentioned this one in post 6. I had it for a few years and loved it until I had to start wearing glasses. These compact reverse porros are gems (if you don't wear glasses)...inexpensive and very good optics...my vote for best bang for buck.
 

OPTIC_NUT

Well-known member
---I meant the eye-placement fussiness of many modern binoculars..
mostly with generous eye relief, so some kind of spacer helps
if they don't take care of it with the eyecup stops.

-----I couldn't get the Olympus 7x21s...not made.
You're not the only one to love them though...at least a few
others praised them.
 

Highway Dog

Well-known member
The one I got (the olympus 7x) did not seem that good. I did not like it. I did not seem to have sharp images. Maybe I got a bad one. I do like to get odd new binoculars..... I was hoping to like it.
 

CliveP

Well-known member
---I meant the eye-placement fussiness of many modern binoculars..
mostly with generous eye relief, so some kind of spacer helps
if they don't take care of it with the eyecup stops.

I find my RSPB 8x20 HD has exactly this problem but such super glass and bit of a luxury feel to it. It is a strain to use having to eye position so carefully and I do think an extra set of eyecups to slip over the current ones would help a lot. However it seems less of a problem outdoors than indoors. At the same time I don't find I like to use the Carson 7x18 from indoors though it's ok. It also seems work much better outdoors and then I have some like the Bresser 8x28 which is a definite indoor bin as is the awful (still better than my 8x21 Olympus DPI) Visionary 8x22u. The Kowa 8x32 SV isn't bothered by anything.

Yesterday with the Carson I had fed some birds on an old stone bridge covered in moss and the morning frost and I just leaned on the bridge and watched the birds feeding and the views through the Carson were simply beautiful. Of coarse I then turned to use it for wide open area viewing and it was very capable there also so big points on versatility. In the beginning I couldn't even hold the Carson properly as it is so small but now when I get into the view I don't even think about it or what I'm holding or what size it is as I'm just captivated with the view. I even tried using it with gloves but it is better without. I definitely look forward to using it again and again ......

When you are raising it to your eyes and your vision follows the exit pupils as they come up to your eyes then you do know that this is a compact but once your eyes have popped into that sweet spot then all laws of physics seem to have been suspended. I think I'm getting closer to describing it :t:
 

CliveP

Well-known member
Just got the Carson 8x22 and the lenses have now defogged out of the cold package and first look is good or very good.

These things are amazing for the price and this one seems much better assembled than the 7x18 was and no problem with the focus wheel sticking into my forehead as happened with the 7x18 so no modification seems to be necessary. I'll take a pic and add it shortly. Not sure which of the two I will prefer but I'm sure already that I will like this 8x22 also. Just looked again. Fantastic :t::t::t:

You can see in the 7x18 pic where I shortened the focus wheel so that the top aligned with the body. Definitely isn't necessary with the 8x22 but I think the focuser on the 7x18 was originally as long as that on the 8x22 so you can see how much I reduced it. To get the full view with the 8x22 I still have to press my eyes right into the eyecups and my forehead does rest against the focuser but only just but then what a view. This little binocular is just absolutely superb. I love it already and they basically are selling them for nothing. Unbelievable. I don't even need the 10x25 but I may just have to buy one anyhow. So glad also that this 8x22 seems a good example and assembled very well but still with the square exit pupils but it doesn't seem to detract from the brilliant big, sharp, contrasty etc image. Just a shame I bought that Visionary as it is so far behind these Carson on image sharpness and clarity. I wish though that the 8x22 Carson had two strap lugs to use a proper small strap but so what, I still give it totally 10 out of 10 for the price, actually for the price 20 out of 10 at least.

Looking at a gull sitting on a lamp post about 100m away I can easily see straight away that these Carson 8x22 are very good, easily giving my Vistron 8x25 and Bresser 8x28 a run for their money and seemingly bettering them for detail. Amazing.
 

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Bencw

Well-known member
The one I got (the olympus 7x) did not seem that good. I did not like it. I did not seem to have sharp images. Maybe I got a bad one. I do like to get odd new binoculars..... I was hoping to like it.

Did you get the 7x21 PC111 BLUE BEETLE Model? that one is pretty good.
 

OPTIC_NUT

Well-known member
"
Yesterday with the Carson I had fed some birds on an old stone bridge covered in moss and the morning frost and I just leaned on the bridge and watched the birds feeding and the views through the Carson were simply beautiful. Of coarse I then turned to use it for wide open area viewing and it was very capable there also so big points on versatility. In the beginning I couldn't even hold the Carson properly as it is so small but now when I get into the view I don't even think about it or what I'm holding or what size it is as I'm just captivated with the view. I even tried using it with gloves but it is better without. I definitely look forward to using it again and again ......
"

Could be the chemistry of you and the goggles..
When I have a pair with some special magic to the view,
I wonder whether it has aberrations that compensate for those
in my eyes. There is a pair of Sears #8210s (8x40) that just
'fits my eyes' perfectly.

After all, binoculars and telescopes would be just 2 lens elements
if it weren't for all the distortions being paired off to cancel each other..
 

CliveP

Well-known member
"
Yesterday with the Carson I had fed some birds on an old stone bridge covered in moss and the morning frost and I just leaned on the bridge and watched the birds feeding and the views through the Carson were simply beautiful. Of coarse I then turned to use it for wide open area viewing and it was very capable there also so big points on versatility. In the beginning I couldn't even hold the Carson properly as it is so small but now when I get into the view I don't even think about it or what I'm holding or what size it is as I'm just captivated with the view. I even tried using it with gloves but it is better without. I definitely look forward to using it again and again ......
"

Could be the chemistry of you and the goggles..
When I have a pair with some special magic to the view,
I wonder whether it has aberrations that compensate for those
in my eyes. There is a pair of Sears #8210s (8x40) that just
'fits my eyes' perfectly.

After all, binoculars and telescopes would be just 2 lens elements
if it weren't for all the distortions being paired off to cancel each other..


Maybe. There definitely is some kind of strange distortion in the mix out from the centre (it's not always very noticeable) but from what I can see so far the 8x22 Carson certainly is from the same family and it seems amazing also with the same sharpness and clean edges to everything and it has that same extra porro prism light contrast boost over my small roof bins. First time I've ever seen this clearly noticeable in a porro bin (the Olympus and Visionary definitely don't have it) so what gives that it turns up in these Carson? Somethings happened in China and it's a good thing. I think if I had owned these before I bought a lot of my small roofs then I might have sent a few more back or been less enthusiastic about them although my roofs don't have this distortion but then they don't have a fov as wide.

Still got to get out and test this 8x22 against the 7x18 but I'm sort of thinking it wil be very close although I may favour the 7x18 just because of the very unusual brilliant wide view and it's tiny size and I already have bins more similar to the 8x22. The 8x22 seem a bigger view and possibly equally as desirable but I need to try them both more together outdoors to see if I can pick a winner but I think they are both looking good. Well I already know the 7x18 is a definite favourite amongst my bins. If the 8x22 turns out to be even better then I think I may start hyperventilating lol.
 
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