New bin, EL10x50SV (1 Viewer)

[SuperDuty]

My bins have the latest DAC, so they should be good for a while.

I hope you have seen different generations of coatings,or just been unlucky with bad demo samples...:-C

personally I just get dizzy when I try to compare color rendition,
It's a bit like listening to hi-fi cables, but then you at least can do blind testing,
blind testing bins is so much harder….
:-O

 

[PeterPS]

our testing, comparison and glassing opportunities here in the states or even Europe are much better

That might be true, but "even in Europe" sounds funny given that most alpha bins come from there......

 

[typo]

I hope you have seen different generations of coatings,
or just been unlucky with bad demo samples...:-C

I've tried Swaros at many places over the years, but I was particularly thinking of several visits to the UK BirdFair where there I suppose there must be 50+ models out on the Swarovski stand. I don't know how many gererations or bad demo samples they would bring to a show.

David

P.S. actually the CL 8 an 10x25s were in a shocking state last year come to thing of it.

 

[Rolstone]

Do you mean to say that all that waffling and vacillating was totally abstract, with not one single, solitary look through anything?

That is a very impatient comment! One of the joys of this forum is that people, like myself who know little about binoculars, can 'plug into' the expertise and enthusiasm of people who regularly test, buy and use binoculars.

I admire Sanjay. He has no facilities to test or compare binoculars in India but he has spent €2,100 on a pair. I am not surprised that he took time to reach a decision. Personally, I would hate to buy a pair without the opportunity to test them. Good on you Sanjay!!

Rolstone

 

[SuperDuty]

That's bizarre, seems like they would bring the best they had.

I don't know how many gererations or bad demo samples they would bring to a show.

David

P.S. actually the CL 8 an 10x25s were in a shocking state last year come to thing of it.

 

[Holger Merlitz]

I have been able to solve problem of two circle which means able to set IP distance correctly. However even at different setting of eye relief I do see a dark outer peripheral circle around the picture. Also as I try and adjust my eyes by trying to place them correctly I do find some time kidney like appearance ( black in color) both side which comes and disappear. I guess these are some teething problems before I find some correct setting to my eyes.

I am not sure if this peripheral dark circle is normal. Also less than before but I do find some dark are between my eyes and from where the view start ( tunnel view). My expectation is window view and don't know if that is possible in binocular or not.

Sorry if I am writing very basic since I am new to the world of binoculars.

Sanjay

What Sanjay is describing here should give us something to think about. He is the one who has not yet got used to view through binoculars, and hence he precisely observes what the experienced user has already forgotten: The view through a binocular is narrow! The Swaro has an apparent angle of view just above 60°, a number most among us would regard quite decent. But that is so because we don't know better any more, since the real wide angle binoculars have practically disappeared from our markets. The free view of our eyes covers about 100°, and we allow those binoculars to cut away a major part of that.

When will the manufacturers realize these shortcomings and start making binoculars with truly wide angles again? The Zeiss 8x40 Deltarem of the 1930s, with almost 90° apparent angle, would be the benchmark here.

Cheers,
Holger

 

[SuperDuty]

How hard would it be to have SV quality with that wide of a view ?

What Sanjay is describing here should give us something to think about. He is the one who has not yet got used to view through binoculars, and hence he precisely observes what the experienced user has already forgotten: The view through a binocular is narrow! The Swaro has an apparent angle of view just above 60°, a number most among us would regard quite decent. But that is so because we don't know better any more, since the real wide angle binoculars have practically disappeared from our markets. The free view of our eyes covers about 100°, and we allow those binoculars to cut away a major part of that.

When will the manufacturers realize these shortcomings and start making binoculars with truly wide angles again? The Zeiss 8x40 Deltarem of the 1930s, with almost 90° apparent angle, would be the benchmark here.

Cheers,
Holger

 

[Holger Merlitz]

How hard would it be to have SV quality with that wide of a view ?

The question then is: What actually is it that we call quality? Is it not quality to see more, because of the wider angle?

Sure, such a wide angle binocular is different and it approaches different users: It would be for those who want to be part of the action instead of just spotting a certain object near the center of view. These binoculars would be heavier and bulkier, they won't be sharp to the edge of field, and they certainly won't replace the SV, but they would offer something complementary.

Cheers,
Holger

 

[etudiant]

What Sanjay is describing here should give us something to think about. He is the one who has not yet got used to view through binoculars, and hence he precisely observes what the experienced user has already forgotten: The view through a binocular is narrow! The Swaro has an apparent angle of view just above 60°, a number most among us would regard quite decent. But that is so because we don't know better any more, since the real wide angle binoculars have practically disappeared from our markets. The free view of our eyes covers about 100°, and we allow those binoculars to cut away a major part of that.

When will the manufacturers realize these shortcomings and start making binoculars with truly wide angles again? The Zeiss 8x40 Deltarem of the 1930s, with almost 90° apparent angle, would be the benchmark here.

Cheers,
Holger

There are 100* apparent angle telescope eye pieces available, pioneered I believe by the TeleVue Ethos line. They are not small and not cheap, but they demonstrate that very wide angle views are possible. The price point for Holger's Deltarem successor would probably be double that of current alphas, so I'm not hopeful it will see development.

 

[Maljunulo]

There are 100* apparent angle telescope eye pieces available, pioneered I believe by the TeleVue Ethos line. They are not small and not cheap, but they demonstrate that very wide angle views are possible. The price point for Holger's Deltarem successor would probably be double that of current alphas, so I'm not hopeful it will see development.

If you have ever picked up one of those eyepieces, you know that a binocular with two of them would be something one wouldn't want to carry around all day.

 

[Vespobuteo]

the 10x42 SV have even less AFOV only 60°
swaro 10x50 62°,
Zeiss SF 10x42 have 66°,
swaro 25-50x scope EP, 60°-70°
Kowa's 25-60x scope EP have 70°-80° AFOV!!
but so big AFOV is a bit annoying to my taste,
since you have to "look around the corner"
i.e. move your eye/head,
to scan the complete view,
sure more immersive. yes
but less practical,

I think there are different philosophies here,
nothing is better than the other, it's just different,
and your prefs decides what you choose,

 

[etudiant]

If you have ever picked up one of those eyepieces, you know that a binocular with two of them would be something one wouldn't want to carry around all day.

So true!
Only consolation is that they are so fat around the middle that they would need an 8o+ mm interocular distance.
Maybe the binocs for Bigfoot?

 

[Sanjay Naithani]

That is a very impatient comment! One of the joys of this forum is that people, like myself who know little about binoculars, can 'plug into' the expertise and enthusiasm of people who regularly test, buy and use binoculars.

I admire Sanjay. He has no facilities to test or compare binoculars in India but he has spent €2,100 on a pair. I am not surprised that he took time to reach a decision. Personally, I would hate to buy a pair without the opportunity to test them. Good on you Sanjay!!

Rolstone

Yes it was difficult. I looked at ZEiss VIctory HT and it was impressive. Then I looked at SWarovski 12* 50 EL and I liked it more than ZEiss Victory HT. I tried this twice to make sure I am consistent both the times. And yes I consulted all of you and you guys are amazing in terms of your response. That's how I decided to buy. Now that's different matter that I found 12* 50 having more punch then 10*50.
Today I tried 10*50 and I must say that I liked the depth of the view in it. Much was in focus from near to far and it was impressive. My mind still tell me 12*50 was less in whiteness , more saturated colors and looked more crisp. However this all could be because of that day.

Sanjay

 

[Sanjay Naithani]

What Sanjay is describing here should give us something to think about. He is the one who has not yet got used to view through binoculars, and hence he precisely observes what the experienced user has already forgotten: The view through a binocular is narrow! The Swaro has an apparent angle of view just above 60°, a number most among us would regard quite decent. But that is so because we don't know better any more, since the real wide angle binoculars have practically disappeared from our markets. The free view of our eyes covers about 100°, and we allow those binoculars to cut away a major part of that.

When will the manufacturers realize these shortcomings and start making binoculars with truly wide angles again? The Zeiss 8x40 Deltarem of the 1930s, with almost 90° apparent angle, would be the benchmark here.

Cheers,
Holger

I agree that despite all we say about the best of the binoculars, there is still much to be achieved in terms of useability and consistency. I am not sure how much production processes are consistent. At times I think when there are different views from different people on same model, most of the time we say that we see differently. This however can be true ,but I really suspect that there can be underlying problem of consistency in production process. These firms need much to be learnt from auto companies on producing consistent level of quality.

Just wanted to tell here that I have not seen any Rolling ball effect on these Swarovision. I followed one eagle for quite some time and did some real panning but I didn't see any RB.

Sanjay Naithani

 

[Kammerdiner]

If you have ever picked up one of those eyepieces, you know that a binocular with two of them would be something one wouldn't want to carry around all day.

Indeed there's a reason folks call them "hand grenades." :-O

Mark

 

[SuperDuty]

I think you may have told me in a roundabout way to keep the EL10X42SV and look no further. I find the color and contrast to be absolutely beautiful.

My mind still tell me 12*50 was less in whiteness , more saturated colors and looked more crisp.

Sanjay

 

[[email protected]]

Yes it was difficult. I looked at ZEiss VIctory HT and it was impressive. Then I looked at SWarovski 12* 50 EL and I liked it more than ZEiss Victory HT. I tried this twice to make sure I am consistent both the times. And yes I consulted all of you and you guys are amazing in terms of your response. That's how I decided to buy. Now that's different matter that I found 12* 50 having more punch then 10*50.
Today I tried 10*50 and I must say that I liked the depth of the view in it. Much was in focus from near to far and it was impressive. My mind still tell me 12*50 was less in whiteness , more saturated colors and looked more crisp. However this all could be because of that day.

Sanjay

If you have it in your mind that you still think the 12x50 SV was better for you you will always have that in the back of your mind. Go try the 12x50 again and I am sure you could exchange them for not too much difference in money. I have heard the 12x50 SV's are great binoculars also and would have extra punch because they are 12x. Could you hold the 12x steady? That is quite a magnification to hold steady but the big SV's are easy to hand hold. Don't settle for 2nd best or something you are not QUITE satisfied with when you pay that much money and don't go by what everybody says on Bird Forum. Get the binocular YOU want and if it is the 12x50 SV get it.

 

[jgraider]

I think you may have told me in a roundabout way to keep the EL10X42SV and look no further. I find the color and contrast to be absolutely beautiful.

I'll know the answer to that, in my own mind at least, when my 10x50SV's get here in a couple of days. In spite of all the accolades given here about the '50's, if they're better than the '42'SV.....I'll have to see it to believe it. Not that I don't believe what the posters here say, but in my mind the 10x42SV is a phenomenal piece of equipment.

 

[Sanjay Naithani]

I'll know the answer to that, in my own mind at least, when my 10x50SV's get here in a couple of days. In spite of all the accolades given here about the '50's, if they're better than the '42'SV.....I'll have to see it to believe it. Not that I don't believe what the posters here say, but in my mind the 10x42SV is a phenomenal piece of equipment.

When are you getting 10*50 SV ? I think you ordered it couple almost a week back. It will be interesting to see your comparison between 42 and 50mmm

Sanjay

 

[henry link]

Sanjay,

Memories of image quality are notoriously unreliable, but you can at least test whether the difference between a 4.2 and a 5mm exit pupil has any effect on your perception of image brightness or color saturation without needing to find a 10x42 SV for comparison. Just make a pair 42mm stopdown masks to place on the front of your 50mm binoculars. Any thin stiff opaque material will do, like black pasteboard. Cut to the right size and tape to the objective trim rings and you have a binocular that should behave very much like a current 10x42 SV. I would start by placing a single mask on one side and leave the other side unmasked. Look back and forth between the two sides with one eye.

Henry