New birdwatcher having to decide on binoculars (1 Viewer)

[Maljunulo]

I think it's more than "bad form".

A more expensive binocular will have better materials, better optical glass, tighter manufacturing tolerances, better inspection and quality control, and I'm sure several I haven't thought of offhand.

There are real reasons why the best costs more.

 

[VonMaunder]

I think it's more than "bad form".

A more expensive binocular will have better materials, better optical glass, tighter manufacturing tolerances, better inspection and quality control, and I'm sure several I haven't thought of offhand.

There are real reasons why the best costs more.

Oh, I get it! There are reasons for the higher cost but the notion that one could successfully bird with a $200 binocular surely is bad form in here!! Naturebird should really be more careful.

I jest! This, from someone who happily, obliviously and with good result used exactly that, a $200 (with a friend's employee discount down from $250 IIRC) 12X50 Pentax porro for 30+ years of birdwatching/stargazing. I've only recently upgraded to a 30 year old alpha, what a pleasure to use but I doubt they'll enable me to ID more birds, can't blame the gear for that one!

 

[Maljunulo]

Whatever gets it done.

 

[Naturebird]

Im sorry if i offended anyone, im sure a more expensive binocular is better than a cheaper one. Im just having a hard time deciding on what to get,

I would choose the Vortex, sight unseen, and I have no experience with that brand.

They are well known, and have an excellent reputation.

Buy the best you can afford. A $200 binocular may not be a good long-term choice.

Just my opinion, and worth every penny you are paying for it.

I decided to return the Viper HD, i might get an other binocular but probably in something like 8x30. I feel that the 8x42 are so big that i loose a lot of birding oportunities, due to leaving the binos home when i go out for other reasons.

The "buy the best optic you can afford" is a bit tricky, i actually could afford a way more expensive binocular, i have a good job, no family and live in a small apartment, so spending money is not a problem. But I don't want to buy expensive things that just end up collecting dust, if i knew i was going to be birding every weekend, i would get the 3 000$ binoculars without any hesitation. But if i just go out once every other month, i feel that it wouldn't be money well spent. I'd rather spend the money on a trip somewhere, or perhaps invest it in something.

There is also the issue of buying a binocular that is so expensive that you don't dare to use it. If i had a binocular worth 3 000$ i'm not sure i would bring it very often, it might get stolen, or dropped!

 

[dalat]

I guess the question is not so much what bin to buy, but whether you will stay in birding in the coming years. Having just started a few months ago, you may still feel unsure about that. So my advise would be: continue going birding with your current bin, and once you have a good feeling that birding is for you, then shell out 1500 to 3000, and do not worry about bins any more for the next 20 years.

PS: If you love birding, and you have a 3000 $ bin, you will use it, don't worry about that

 

[Maljunulo]

You will actually be able to use it to look at things other than birds.

Good optics are a joy unto themselves.

 

[Maljunulo]

Im sorry if i offended anyone, im sure a more expensive binocular is better than a cheaper one. Im just having a hard time deciding on what to get,

I decided to return the Viper HD, i might get an other binocular but probably in something like 8x30. I feel that the 8x42 are so big that i loose a lot of birding oportunities, due to leaving the binos home when i go out for other reasons.

The "buy the best optic you can afford" is a bit tricky, i actually could afford a way more expensive binocular, i have a good job, no family and live in a small apartment, so spending money is not a problem. But I don't want to buy expensive things that just end up collecting dust, if i knew i was going to be birding every weekend, i would get the 3 000$ binoculars without any hesitation. But if i just go out once every other month, i feel that it wouldn't be money well spent. I'd rather spend the money on a trip somewhere, or perhaps invest it in something.

There is also the issue of buying a binocular that is so expensive that you don't dare to use it. If i had a binocular worth 3 000$ i'm not sure i would bring it very often, it might get stolen, or dropped!

No worry, no offense here.

It bothers me a bit when so many seem to think that the only reason one would want to own fine optics is to chase birds. Or “I’ll just buy something cheap, because I may not like looking at birds.”

It’s kind of sad to see so many miss so much.

 

[OrangeO]

Im sorry if i offended anyone, im sure a more expensive binocular is better than a cheaper one. Im just having a hard time deciding on what to get,

I decided to return the Viper HD, i might get an other binocular but probably in something like 8x30. I feel that the 8x42 are so big that i loose a lot of birding oportunities, due to leaving the binos home when i go out for other reasons.

The "buy the best optic you can afford" is a bit tricky, i actually could afford a way more expensive binocular, i have a good job, no family and live in a small apartment, so spending money is not a problem. But I don't want to buy expensive things that just end up collecting dust, if i knew i was going to be birding every weekend, i would get the 3 000$ binoculars without any hesitation. But if i just go out once every other month, i feel that it wouldn't be money well spent. I'd rather spend the money on a trip somewhere, or perhaps invest it in something.

There is also the issue of buying a binocular that is so expensive that you don't dare to use it. If i had a binocular worth 3 000$ i'm not sure i would bring it very often, it might get stolen, or dropped!

In my search for smaller binoculars of similar quality I didn't find the weight difference significant enough to make them worthwhile. Maybe in the future I'll find the size and weight more bothersome but so far I'm happy with the sacrifice.

Jumping to a $3000 binocular is not something most of us can do lightly but it has a couple upsides. One is that it can motivate you to go out birding more to get your money's worth. It can also cure you of the constant quest for something better once you have "the best". After reading your posts that is something I noticed. You have perfectly decent binoculars but yearn for something better which is only natural. In my opinion once you get to a quality binocular with phase coated prisms and ED glass the improvements slow down. Whenever I try other people's binoculars with phase coating and ED in the $250-$500 range I'm shocked with how good the quality is. I wouldn't be sad to have one of those. Binoculars keep improving slowly up to $1000 but after that, for my eyes, I would have to do careful side by side and a lot of it boils down to personal preference.

Binoculars are insanely personal and individual. It can be really hard to decide which one suits you best until you try them. We all have different priorities for optical quality, budgets, and ergonomics. I remember being obsessed with spec sheets but now I care more about how the binocular handles and how easy it is for me to adjust them to my eyes. There are still some things I'm looking for an a spec sheet but none of it beats ease of use.

Comparing the central image of a vintage thrifted Porro to a high end modern binocular showed me how limiting my vision can be, the image doesn't look exactly the same but my eyes "resolve" the same details in the center. There is nothing I can't see with one that I can see with another. Once you get outiside the center it's a different story and everyone places a different value on how important the image outside the center is.

It can be daunting to carry something of high value in public but once you realize 99% can't comprehend that someone would pay over $150 tops for binoculars it becomes easier. Most people wont know or care. As far as dropping it, it's a good thing modern binoculars are durable and shock resistant but you shouldn't drop them and if that's a concern you should keep them on a strap.

I hope you can get some time with the expensive binoculars so you realize even "the best" have flaws and those flaws can't be improved with money because there is nothing more expensive, just laterall tradeoffs. Compared to other hobbies this is a blessing of binoculars, you can actually try the most expensive binoculars and decide if they are worth it. As far as portable binoculars go there is a very clear and relatively accesible ceiling.

 

[Maljunulo]

It all comes down to “if you can’t see the difference, it’s irrelevant”.

If you can see the difference, then you have to decide if the lesser is acceptable, or if it will bug you forever.

To me, the whole point of all this is to see better, and better optics enable us to see better.

It is idle to wander off into discussions of whether or not it is "worth it" or "justified", or whether or not a $3000 binocular is "twice as good as" a $1500 binocular. It is not a linear thing.

More is to be gained by using whatever you have/can afford than endless comparison and fault finding.

Go out and actually look through the thing, and marvel at all you see that your naked eyeballs never would have revealed to you.

 

[Maljunulo]

PS. I also think it makes a great deal of difference whether you are a bird watcher, or a bird lister, but I am reluctant to pull the bung out of that one in this thread.

 

[dalat]

PS. I also think it makes a great deal of difference whether you are a bird watcher, or a bird lister, but I am reluctant to pull the bung out of that one in this thread.

Go ahead! Curious to hear what might make a great difference for binocular needs.

 

[dalat]

Compared to other hobbies this is a blessing of binoculars, you can actually try the most expensive binoculars and decide if they are worth it. As far as portable binoculars go there is a very clear and relatively accesible ceiling.

This!

Take bird photography for example, all those big white lenses you see out there, they easily cost 5000, 10000 or more.

 

[Maljunulo]

The driven lister must, at all cost, positively identify each and every bird seen, even if partly hidden, and visible for an instant.

The bird watcher will spend a great deal of time watching a "generic bird" that is doing something interesting, not particularly caring what it is, or they are willing to try and figure out later what it may have been.

 

[VonMaunder]

No worry, no offense here.

It bothers me a bit when so many seem to think that the only reason one would want to own fine optics is to chase birds. Or “I’ll just buy something cheap, because I may not like looking at birds.”

It’s kind of sad to see so many miss so much.

I'd say the danger here is spending too much time in the BF bino threads as a newbie, it may put one off as being too expensive an activity. I'm all for the 'cry once' philosophy but often, far fewer tears could be shed by buying older alpha or near alpha binocs that hold up very well today. As has been mentioned, newer coatings/phase correction have found their way to relatively inexpensive offerings that are pretty impressive and would serve well for years.

Most of us are prone to latest/greatest aquisition syndrome but the objective should be kept in mind, watching some element of the natural world, or whatever. I love the view and ergonomics of the old school Zeiss 10X40B/GA T*P (so much so that I bought a second pair) but the view from the new Hawke Frontier ED X 8X42 is impressive. When I did a brief sxs comparison with the 8X42 NL Pure, there was nowhere near a difference of 2600 of MY dollars. I fully understand that there is for others, who won't cry in the slightest.

Bottom line-- if you can see what you need and enjoy it, don't stress the gear.

@Naturebird no offense here either, the 'bad form' was in jest and I fully applaud what for you is sensible, well assessed restraint.

 

[Maljunulo]

As always, your money, your choice.

 

[Maljunulo]

I'd say the danger here is spending too much time in the BF bino threads as a newbie,

I would say that the danger is in not educating yourself, and relying on this place to tell you what you want.

I am absolutely convinced that the only way to evaluate a binocular for your personal use is to actually look through a sample.

On a small side note, if you are looking for a $500 binocular, don’t look through an NL, look through $500 binoculars.

 

[VonMaunder]

I would say that the danger is in not educating yourself, and relying on this place to tell you what you want.

I am absolutely convinced that the only way to evaluate a binocular for your personal use is to actually look through a sample.

On a small side note, if you are looking for a $500 binocular, don’t look through an NL, look through $500 binoculars.

Relying on being told what one wants is rarely the way to go. Methinks one would be missing a good bit of their bino education by NOT looking through an NL, though I gather a lot of newbies wouldn't see nor appreciate the difference between it and a decent mid-grade, especially if blind tested. Some will be more passionate about what they are seeing, others by what they see through. It's all good. For the afflicted, and I suffer bouts, or the neophyte, often it's the case and good to remember-- the grass you're standing on is plenty green.

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Before you buy think about your personal birding style. Are you going to hides/blinds by car and watch there for hours or are you a moving birder, hiking or cycling hours per day? Are you birding in forests or in open country?

For reach, brightness, field of view and easy eye placement a 10x50 is the best but it is heavy to carry and shaking becomes a problem. On the other hand a 8x30 weighs nothing and is easy to pack. It has a more 'limited' view though.

Some birders at the coast prefer 15x56 but you need a monopod when watching for hours. A lot of long distance hikers in the mountains want lightweight binoculars and need fast access. Even the small 7x21 Curio may be an option for them. It all comes down to your personal style.

 

[Sky2goflying]

LEICA Trinovid 7x42BA binoculars | eBay

Together with eyelets on both sides the stronger carrying cord improves the binoculars' handling making them even readier for action. Together with a nitrogen-filling the interior of the binoculars is excellently protected and permanent clear viewing is ensured.

www.ebay.com

These are amazing for that price

 

[fazalmajid]

I am absolutely convinced that the only way to evaluate a binocular for your personal use is to actually look through a sample.

Except a neophyte might not know what to look out for while viewing: field of view, chromatic aberration, rolling ball, edge sharpness, color, 3D effect if using Porros (I’d definitely consider a Porro in the $500 range), coma if they also want to use it for astronomy.

There are also lesser-known brands that give you tremendous bang for your buck like Meopta, Kahles, GPO, Kowa, Fujinon, Opticron and so on.