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New camera, 150-400 and 2x TC ? (1 Viewer)

Jim M.

Choose Civility
Personally I would be more interested in a 500 or 600mm prime telephoto than a 150-400 zoom... I use my Oly 300mm with the 1.4X teleconverter pretty much permanently attached, so I'm already at 420. I heard a rumor that when they have the big event coming up, they might also announce development plans for more lenses, maybe even a little "road map"...

Dave

As you probably know, the 150-400 is supposed to come with a built-in 1.25x switchable TC option, and Oly will also introduce a 2x TC (not sure if that will work with the 300mm prime as well). So it also comes with the promise of options for more reach. And yes, I believe they are supposed to announce two other longish lenses in development. I really prefer zooms myself because I need the flexibility to shift between different types and sizes of subjects.

I also agree with others that I view the greater depth of field offered by m4/3 lenses (versus lenses for full frame or A-PSC cameras) as an advantage, not a disadvantage, especially when it comes to shooting close subjects such as insects or plants!
 
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Jim M.

Choose Civility
What Olympus are doing with the rumoured EM1.X and lenses is making a statement that the company celebrates its 100 year anniversary, that they are committed to m4/3 and also launching a body and telephoto zooms in time for the 2020 olympics in Tokyo.

Yes, but there was nothing that required them to launch the biggest and heaviest m4/3 camera and lens ever to celebrate that, so that's only a partial explanation for what they are doing.
 
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Tord

Well-known member
Yes, but there was nothing that required them to launch the biggest and heaviest m4/3 camera and lens ever to celebrate that, so that's only a partial explanation for what they are doing.
Hi,

I believe it's a calculated risk mitigation behind.

The 150-400 lens makes perfectly sense to have available for the Olympics.

From a size standpoint the rumoured EM1.X is somewhat bigger then the EM1.2 + battery grip.

However from a weight perspective it could be lighter as the mechanical coupling with the grip is gone. From ergonomics perspective, a bigger body/better grip when paired with a 150-400 it is not necessarily a step to the worse.

Olympus have a number of new camera/imaging technologies and features for which they need a body, and the electronics required to implement the technologies may require more space than is available with the current body. For instance fitting in additional imaging processor for improved AF, sustained heat dissipation (I am thinking of 4k 60 video, that's resource consuming), additional battery capacity required to supply video recording.

They also need time to stabilize and exploit and fine tune the technology, maybe release improvements/bug fixes/... through FW updates such as they have done with the previous EM cameras. 1 year should be enough.

Moving forward they will shrink the new technology and make it available to in a line of smaller cameras as we are more used to.
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
The rumors says it's an f4, Olympus 150-400mm f/4.0 PRO.
To me a 75-200/2.8 (150-400mm 35mm eqv.) hade been more realistic.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-new-ol...d-125x-converter-and-additional-x2-converter/

But interesting, it will be pretty big. Nikon/Canon similar lenses with bult in TC are 3kg+ in weight
and costs $10k.

A larger body to balance larger lenses makes perfectly sense with the E-M1-X.
Weight still does not have to be more than 800-900 grams and much less than other pro bodies
that are more like 1.5 kg.
 
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Jim M.

Choose Civility
A larger body to balance larger lenses makes perfectly sense with the E-M1-X.

I've never bought the argument that you need a larger body to "balance" a larger lens. The body is there to hold the sensor, etc., not to "balance" the lens, whatever that means. You can get perfect balance on a tripod or hand held with a large lens without having to increase the size of the body, you just adjust the position of your hands or the tripod mount.
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
I've never bought the argument that you need a larger body to "balance" a larger lens. The body is there to hold the sensor, etc., not to "balance" the lens, whatever that means. You can get perfect balance on a tripod or hand held with a large lens without having to increase the size of the body, you just adjust the position of your hands or the tripod mount.

People usually mount the battery grip when shooting larger lenses as you need the extra support for the lower part of the hand.
It seems logical to integrate the grip when the camera is intended for pro users shooting sport with large lenses. And as mentioned above, there will be some weight savings having the grip built in.

Consider that the new 150-400mm/4 might be as heavy as 3 kg.
Olympus might have to beef up the magnesium body wall thickness as well and needs more space for a larger battery. All makes sense in a pro body.

The EM-1 ii will most likely remain so it's not mandatory to choose the larger body.

Personally I would have preferred something lighter and probably cheaper as similar Canon/Nikon lenses are $10000.
 
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opticoholic

Well-known member
Concerning the equivalence issues, discussed above,
this is a pretty good resource to digest ("Equivalent Speed"):

https://www.opticallimits.com/Reviews/986-equivalence

That is indeed one of more clear and concise essays on equivalence that I have seen. Thanks for sharing it.

At the risk of going "off topic," the wild card for me is the physical size of the pixels on the sensor, and what the "sweet spot" is, which may vary for different individuals depending on a range of factors, most especially how high you crank up the ISO. The quality of the glass you use in front of the sensor is also very important. I'm not sure that all expensive super telephoto lenses are equally up to the task of resolving details on sensors with high pixel density. Seems like it might also sometimes matter whether the lens has been designed specifically for the sensor size... In any case, I think it is understandable that the "equivalence" topic generates so much confusion and discussion. It really is pretty complex with a lot of factors to consider.

Back on topic...

As you probably know, the 150-400 is supposed to come with a built-in 1.25x switchable TC option, and Oly will also introduce a 2x TC ... And yes, I believe they are supposed to announce two other longish lenses in development. I really prefer zooms myself because I need the flexibility to shift between different types and sizes of subjects. ...

I can completely understand that. Historically zoom lenses and teleconverters usually meant a compromise in image quality. However Olympus has a reputation for making zoom lenses with almost zero compromise. I recall reading so many good things about their older "Super High Grade" zooms. For me personally, the extra complexity of a 150-400 zoom would be mostly wasted and just serve to make it more expensive, but I know lots of people really need/use the wide end. My first telephoto was a Nikon 200-400mm. I never looked back after I sold it and I still sort of crave a bit more length for small birds, but maybe someday I will come back to a zoom...

Olympus have a number of new camera/imaging technologies and features for which they need a body, and the electronics required to implement the technologies may require more space than is available with the current body.

This and much of the rest of what you said makes a lot of sense to me. I've read that the future of imaging is going to increasingly shift to processing inside the camera. I like that Olympus is sort of bucking the trend, ignoring the "megapixel race" and maybe leading the way in this regard.

The rumors says it's an f4, Olympus 150-400mm f/4.0 PRO.

... that will be pretty big. Nikon/Canon similar lenses with bult in TC are 3kg+ in weight
and costs 10000k.

Yeah I don't think we know for sure whether it is a fixed f/4 all the way out to 400mm, but I had the same thought... I hope Olympus doesn't price it at $10K...

Hey, the Olympus forum has come to life and we have a lively discussion with several participants. How about that!

Happy new year everyone.

Dave
 
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njlarsen

Gallery Moderator
Opus Editor
Supporter
Barbados
Happy (belated) New Year from me as well.

Regarding zoom or not: it has never come to the fore elsewhere like it did in Galapagos. Most things were just so close, but the occasional longer distance item definitely kept my zoom busy! IF using primes I would have had to bring several bodies with one lens each because of the unpredictability of what would be available.

Niels
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
Yeah I don't think we know for sure whether it is a fixed f/4 all the way out to 400mm, but I had the same thought... I hope Olympus doesn't price it at $10K...

Hey, the Olympus forum has come to life and we have a lively discussion with several participants. How about that!

Happy new year everyone.

Dave

If it's a PRO lens, at least f4 seems logical, also a built in TC makes more sense on a faster lens?
Also the 100 years anniversary might make Olympus to go a bit "crazy" on this lens and make it a $10k lens...

At $4-5K it would be a bit more interesting, and it would be less than 50% of a Nikon/Canon 800mm/f5.6 lens. But Right now I lean more towards the Nikon 500 PF as I prefer lighter gear these days.

When working from a hide, a 300-800mm zoom (1200mm with 1.5 TC!) at 3kg would be very useful though.
5 axis IS would probably make it handholdable as well, at least for a few minutes.

Latest supertele lenses from Sony and Canon have lost a lot of weight.
Perhaps Olympus could manage something like that.

Dito new year!
 
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njlarsen

Gallery Moderator
Opus Editor
Supporter
Barbados
snip

When working from a hide, a 300-800mm zoom (1200mm with 1.5 TC!) at 3kg would be very useful though.
5 axis IS would probably make it handholdable as well, at least for a few minutes.

snip
Dito new year!

I have seen a guy with such a lens IRL. His wife carried one backpack with the lens, he himself carried another one with the camera body (I cannot remember if there were two bodies) and another smaller lens (looked more like a macro). The tripod I think he had over the shoulder. So two people to carry the gear of one photographer. I am glad I do not have such a monster!

Niels
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
I have seen a guy with such a lens IRL. His wife carried one backpack with the lens, he himself carried another one with the camera body (I cannot remember if there were two bodies) and another smaller lens (looked more like a macro). The tripod I think he had over the shoulder. So two people to carry the gear of one photographer. I am glad I do not have such a monster!

Niels

The sigma 300-800mm zoom is a beast, 4.5+ kg,
and close to 50 cm long and it has no VR/IS.
Obviously you need a sturdy tripod for that.

But I was talking/dreaming about the eqv. focal length on MFT.
Only 3 kg would be very nice and handy for that focal length.
And with 5-axis IS the tripod requirement would be quite modest.

:t:
 

njlarsen

Gallery Moderator
Opus Editor
Supporter
Barbados
The sigma 300-800mm zoom is a beast, 4.5+ kg,
and close to 50 cm long and it has no VR/IS.
Obviously you need a sturdy tripod for that.

But I was talking/dreaming about the eqv. focal length on MFT.
Only 3 kg would be very nice and handy for that focal length.
And with 5-axis IS the tripod requirement would be quite modest.

:t:

I shoot the PanaLeica 100-400 which is the 200-800 equivalent. In good light it is great, and I do not own a tripod (or at least my tripod has not yet made it to the same country where I am). Take a look at https://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/616710/ppuser/7427 which is reduced size and therefore even have lost a slight bit of feather definition compared to the full size.

Niels
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
I shoot the PanaLeica 100-400 which is the 200-800 equivalent. In good light it is great, and I do not own a tripod (or at least my tripod has not yet made it to the same country where I am). Take a look at https://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/616710/ppuser/7427 which is reduced size and therefore even have lost a slight bit of feather definition compared to the full size.

Niels

I seldom shoot in good light, unfortunately. And I'm addicted to short DOF. ;)

The 100-400 Panasonic is a nice lens, played around with it a bit on the G9. Also dropped a bit in price lately around here (and so has the G9), so it's good value for money.

But I would prefer something with a bit faster f-stop. The Leica 200/2.8 has passed through my mind. A bit short perhaps. 250/2.8 would have been better.
 

Tord

Well-known member
The sigma 300-800mm zoom is a beast, 4.5+ kg,
and close to 50 cm long and it has no VR/IS.
Obviously you need a sturdy tripod for that.

But I was talking/dreaming about the eqv. focal length on MFT.
Only 3 kg would be very nice and handy for that focal length.
And with 5-axis IS the tripod requirement would be quite modest.

:t:
5 axis IS? I suppose you mean 2-axis OIS, and that 5 axis IS is applicable the IBIS? Achieving rotation IS in the lens would require a magic trick, X and Y translation would be a challenge to implement.

If the 150-400mm lens is F/4 then it would probably push the scale up towards the 3 kg mark if Olympus use same optical tech/glass as today. If it's an F/4.5 then maybe 2kg.

With dual IS (2 axis OIS and 5 axis IBIS), achieving sharp pictures handheld at 400mm should be easy, we could envision as slow as 1/30s even with the rumoured built-in 1.25x TC engaged.

Now when the subject TC comes up... There is also a rumoured 2.0x TC. If that is launched with the 150-400 then it would speak in favor of the lens being F/4. If it is not intended to be used for that lens, instead intended for the 300 F/4 or 40-150 F/2.8 (or other fast lens not yet announced for that matter) then the lens could very well be F/4.5. Or the 2.0x TC rumour is false. If the built-in TC is true then it could very well be 1.25 even though it sounds a bit odd at first glance:
400 F/4 --> 500 F/5
400 F/4.5 --> 500 F/5.6

If the TC is 1.4 then we would either get:
400 F/4 --> 560 F/5.6
400 F/4.5 --> 560 F/6.3

Note that the latter is same speed as the Panasonic 100-400 however with larger zoom range (100-560), dual IS support and most important 1 1/3 stops faster (89mm front lens diameter instead of 63mm). Maybe that's how Olympus will position that new lens? Priced competitively it would certainly attract many presumtive users in search for a highly portable, weather proof setup capable of delivering good results as long as light conditions are OK (say calling for ISO 1600 or less with the existing sensor as far as I am concerned). I know from own experience that 560 F/8 with camera IBIS only can easily be operated hand-held for sharp results (Canon 400 F/5.6 + 1.4 Extender + Metabones), adding 2 axis OIS would be really sweet.
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
5 axis IS? I suppose you mean 2-axis OIS, and that 5 axis IS is applicable the IBIS? Achieving rotation IS in the lens would require a magic trick, X and Y translation would be a challenge to implement.

If the 150-400mm lens is F/4 then it would probably push the scale up towards the 3 kg mark if Olympus use same optical tech/glass as today. If it's an F/4.5 then maybe 2kg.

I meant IBIS + Lens IS in combination. I suspect the combo is superior with tele lenses and extra useful for video.
IBIS only is more efficient at shorter focal length.
(To compensate "roll" by in-lens IS would be extremely tricky, yes!)

I think (and hope) Olympus will avoid getting close to the diffraction limit with the TC and keep the lens at f/4.
But of course for handholding 3 kg is not optimal. But maybe they could surprise with some new lighter lens tech.

A 2x TC would probably be more realistic to use on a f2.8 prime lens.
IQ will probably not be stellar anyway even though the extremely sharp Leica 200/2.8
seems to to pretty OK.
 
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iveljay

Well-known member
The latest I got was a test e-mail, sent out talking about a new release with a selling link to the E-M1 II and a blank slot for something else. Looks like they are practicing on me.
 

Vespobuteo

Well-known member
More rumors:

"Video specs are on par with the GH5s, autofocus equal to the Sony A9, best EVF in the industry!"

"Iso 2500 on the x looks like 1600 on the Em1.2 probably. Like I said, a bit better than a D500"

C-AF Tracking is “as good as or better than sony a9,better than my d4s for sure”

“No blackouts. Best EVF in the industry.”

"150-400mm MFT lens: – Will probably be on market in late 2019"

"The software correction for artifacts is next level. You can easily use high rez for “moving landscapes”, e.g trees moving in the wind (not a storm, mind you) and it looks like an organic photo at 100%."

https://www.43rumors.com/some-more-...qual-to-the-sony-a9-best-evf-in-the-industry/
 
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Vespobuteo

Well-known member
More leaked information:

Weight 997g
Body (WxHxD) 144.4 x 146.8 x 75.4mm
Effective Resolution 20.4 megapixels
Continuous Shooting Speed 18 fps
50 MP Handheld High Res shot functionality. Building on the HiRes innovation on the E-M1 MK II where a tripod was required, the E-M1X can now take a 50mp HiRes shot handheld. Using a tripod it can now produce 80mp images.
World's best Image stabilization: In combination with a M.Zuiko IS PRO lens, this technology enables the 5-axis sync IS to compensate for approx. 7.5 shutter speed steps.
Totally new AF system with various AF target modes and settings and intelligent subject tracking.


Read more: https://photorumors.com/2019/01/18/...pictures-specifications-prices/#ixzz5d3iap2bQ
 

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