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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMK" data-source="post: 2193771" data-attributes="member: 85596">It is perfectly valid to consider collecting “wrong” from a moral or other standpoint. To consider it somehow “Victorian” is, however, misguided, in my opinion. Just because we have DNA kits, sound-recorders, and all the rest of it, does not invalidate focused collecting.Let me nail my colours to the mast. I have published one article in a popular magazine (Birdwatch), many years ago, in support of continued avian collecting. I have collected birds myself, and would do so again. I think it’s horrible and I don’t enjoy it for one minute, but is it valuable, yes.I don’t believe that the collectors of this new barbet, one of whom I’ve met, Ben Winger, took the slightest iota of “pleasure” from killing these birds. Did they consider it of value to science? Yes, undoubtedly. Birdwatchers who criticise collecting seem to think, judging from comments here, that people who collect birds don’t love birds and are not birders, and much less conservationists. Of course they do and are those things. I can name several collectors who are among the very top field people, excellent sound-recordists, photographers, and the like. One has to look no further than Ted Parker, a man who undoubtedly loved birds so much that he pretty much fell out of school because he wanted to be birding all the time, who was possibly the best field ornithologist of his generation (at least in the Western Hemisphere), who pretty much invented (with apologies to Paul Schwartz) the use of tape recorders as a means of seeing and identifying birds; and yet, who still collected birds. I recall that Bob Ridgely used to be vilified by (most) British birders visiting Ecuador for his apparent willingness to collect anything and everything, especially Jocotoco Antpittas! When Bob, in partnership with others, established Fundación Jocotoco and set about doing something tangible to save the birds of Ecuador, which to some people his apparent only interest in was ruthlessly slaughtering, was he commended? And did his and others’ “desire” to collect a good type series of Grallaria ridgelyi endanger that bird, as was so often claimed; apparently not!Most birdwatchers, of which I am one (I am NOT a scientist), do not understand collecting because collectors have only recently come to realise the need to justify their actions to the nature-loving public. But their justification has been published, multiple times (perhaps starting, most notably, with Remsen, 1995, Bird Conserv. International, but there are quite a number of other such papers). Scientists realise the need to justify their actions and to set reasonable quotas and guidelines for responsible collecting (see, most recently, Winker et al., 2010, Auk). The opportunity exists for people who oppose collecting to understand the position and responsibilities of those who believe it should continue. The contrary position, and defence of the need to stop all collecting, is rare in print, but not in internet chat-rooms.Andrew147 considers that scientific collecting should be as unobtrusive as possible. I am not aware of it being particularly “obtrusive”, unless I am particularly blind to gangs of men (and women) armed with mist-nets and shotguns patrolling the countryside? The thought of thousands of dead birds in draws might fill him (I assume it is a ‘he’) with dismay, but has he been to a museum to understand how such places play an integral part in furthering knowledge and conservation of birds? Even if ‘he’ has never been out of the UK (or at least Europe) he presumably owns several bird books that would never have been produced without the insight provided by collections. Lars Svensson certainly could not have made such a marvellous job of the Collins Bird Guide without the access he has to collections throughout Europe and even the Americas (yes, for some Palearctic birds, you need to visit North American museums to understand these birds better).In sum, I support responsible collecting but I can understand why killing birds is regarded as repulsive as it is by many birdwatchers. I understand the latter emotion because I’ve held birds in my hands and killed them, but I also understand why it’s important and useful to do so because I’ve availed myself of both sides of the argument, including the rather briefer published reasons anti. And, I do respect the anti position. A very good friend of mine (a well-known bird artist) was with me once on a field trip in Brazil when we found a vocally different population of a bird >1000 km from its known range. I would have collected that bird, but he asked me not to, and I respected that.Valéry, if you seriously believe the last line of your last posting, which actually I have some empathy with but it ain’t gonna happen, then please state that you are willing to abandon going to the field to watch birds!</blockquote>

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