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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thomasdonegan" data-source="post: 2193810" data-attributes="member: 5190">I agree with andrew147 and GMK."Whether to collect" is basically an emotive issue because there are two competing concerns and people attach different value to them, in some cases zero:- What value is attributed to an individual bird's life?  [In extremis (where there are very small populations involved), the value of species may also be relevant.]- What value is attributed to the scientific research one considers can be done with the specimen.Some scientists who have published on this topic seek to turn collecting into an automaton / amoral decision about whether the specimen is any use to them or for future studies.  It always will be, so you have to collect every bird in the hand or shotgun sight.  That's a personal moral view that people are entitled to.Some of the views on this forum are from persons who perhaps believe that if a life is to be sacrificed, then humans have no right to know what would be known from the specimen, or that nature is sacrasanct.  That's a personal moral view that people are as entitled to as the previous.As someone who does collect small numbers of specimens, but values birds' lives greatly, I seek to balance the two considerations above based on my own subjective assessments.  Those assessments result in fewer birds being collected on my projects than certain other people who study birds in Colombia.  But questions about collecting should only ever be a decision for the person doing the study, balancing the concerns above based on their own criteria.  It's just a question of personal morality.  In a world where most people eat meat (I don't) and recreational and subsistence hunting is legal (I don't do that either), then specimen collecting should not be prohibited as it would be inconsistent.  Everyone is entitled to their own views and practices (provided permits are in place and complied with).Those who essentially kill everything that moves for general museum enrichment purposes, being restricted only by their capacity to prepare specimens (and I know several ornithologists of this ilk who operate in Colombia) should appreciate that many people think individual bird lives have a value greater than that of the size of the collection in their preferred institution or their "field number".Those who would prevent collecting should consider whether this is consistent with omnivorism or hunting.  Moreover, specimens are key to addressing subspecies and species limits and ecological questions in little-studied parts of the world.  Studies of species limits and ecology can result in extremely important conservation outcomes.  For example, if a small population requires species rank, and specimens are required to address that question, its habitat can become a conservation priority.  Habitats can also be a priority for subspecies with small ranges.  The collecting of specimens continues to have some positive and important conservation outcomes and I have seen actual, modern examples of that happening in South America including based on some of my research which specimens were needed to address.My views on this topic, which are considered extreme and widely despised by many ornithologists of the amoral/automaton persuasion referred to above, are set out in more detail in these papers:<a href="http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2008/f/zt01761p048.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2008/f/zt01761p048.pdf</a><a href="http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2009/f/zt02201p020.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2009/f/zt02201p020.pdf</a></blockquote>

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