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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Valéry Schollaert" data-source="post: 2193996" data-attributes="member: 75148">Snap, please, don't read half of my messages...I didn't say exactly that. To be clearer, AT THIS STAGE, today, with have much more knowledge that we need to proper conservation plans. Indeed, we cannot use conservation money to buy all land in need of protection, so let's work in producing money with this remaining nature (see my example of true ecotourism). It can be true, but how many rare endemic species are in not protected at all? Instead of finding some more, let's start by protecting the numerous ones we know.By the way don't be so attached to the species concept. Despite I'm passionated about taxonomy, we should relativise our points of view. In 1999 I was in São Tomé & Príncipe. I watched the white-eyes on both islands and the thrush on São Tomé only. At the time, one species was recognized for each.I saw the white-eye on Príncipe, and I immediately added it on my lifelist. Different "jizz", colour and calls on such isolated population, compare to the São Tomé population, it is obviously another species. Recent genetic studies confirmed, but finally, why did we need those studies? The thrush, also splitted, is now listed as critically endangered.My point of view is1° there is a beautiful forest in Príncipe, let's protect it whatever it holds 3,6 or 8 endemic species.2° I didn't need specimen to split the white-eye. And even if genetic would have proven that they were closely related at sub-species level, what is the difference? Isolated and allopatric populations with some phenotypical differences will be soon (just sone hundreds thousands of year) "good species"3° I don't know if Príncipe Thrush was collected to finally split them but my opinion is, as it was known to be rare (I looked for it several days, unsuccessfully) and endemic (whatever sub-species level or not), it should be protected. Better spend money in conservation and education about forest in Príncipe (that will benefit all forest species) than waste money in killing one or two individual of the rare thrush.Do you want the list of rare bird awaiting protection? It is very long, unfortunately. Why not using our money and ressources to do something for them instead of spending money in planes, cars (and so on) so collect one more?Having a sense of respect of individual doesn't mean protect all individual. I would never kill a man, but I don't give money to all in need of food... I cannot do that. I know car traffic kills, I use car sometimes.... but if a guy is crossing in front of me, I brake.How much is spent to collect new tyrannulets in South America or study the tapaculos stomach? Let's inject this money in conservation, it will not be enough, but a bit better...I can agree on that, but this is also true:"That means that spending must be prioritized. Should those dollars go to finding new information -often details- or to protect areas with a small but viable population of an endangered species? I'd vote for the latter."I think, however, that we are too much attached to our species concept. We created this concept, as already said, excellent for communication and our knowledge, but saying, in short, that "if you belong to this category I created I can kill you, if you belong to another I protect you" is NOT a good relationship we can have with wildlife.I'm of course against vivisection and collecting insect the same way I reject it for birds. And your theory in bird conservation is anyway not applicable on insects. My approach -say put all our means to conserve remaining primary habitat- will protect much more species insect the colleges will do with their collecting...Against it, of course! Completely against it.The first think we should do and we are not doing is learn from our mistakes. We know that introducing species is a disaster for ecosystems, especially restricted ones such on islands. All efforts should be made to avoid this. But are we doing this effort? Millions of animals are still transported for trade, pet, zoos, meat, and so on. We import from far millions of tons of fruits, vegetable, etc and obviously more we use boats, more the risk that a rat or a House Crow use them to invade a new place is high.If we stop all this (I recall you we are responsible of those introductions), we might start thinking of cleaning our past mistakes - and seriously trying in a non violent way instead of using dangerous poisons. Solutions exists, but we rush in the easiest and cheapest. It is what I mean in individual respect: having enough consideration for life to try our best without violent solution. As describing new species without killing specimens, or saving sea birds without poisoning. They are ways to do it, but who really makes the effort?</blockquote>

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