New Old Trinovids (1 Viewer)

[F88]

Driven by curiosity I decided to visit the shop of House of Outdoor to see which consequences the decision of the owner Jan van Daalen had on his decision to completely bannnish the name of Leica from his shop.
I saw:
all Leica signs were removed, the Leica cupboard was sent back to the Leica dealer, practically all new Leica binoculars were sold already except for the Noctivids. No customer seemed interested in this binocular.
The cupboard with all historical Leicas (a small museum) will also be sold completely, so the name of Leica will disappear from the earth in House of Outdoor.
I forgot to ask if the beautiful historic Landrover, painted in breathtaking yellow and supplied with large Leica pictures, a very attractive advertisement on wheels for Leica, will be repainted, but I guess that this will be done, considering the determination of the House of Outdoor staff to throw the name of Leica in complete oblivion because of the decision of the Leica management not to make the Leica Retrovids available for sale in their shop.
Gijs van Ginkel

And all this will make zero impact on Leica in the big picture.
I'm partially inclined towards Mike F's comment but like in many circumstances we have choices and this retailer has made theirs. It does however seem a bit absurd to throw such a wobbly just over the Retrovid. Surely such actions would arrise from ongoing issues.... lack of sales, interest, support, or any other hypothetical bunch of problems?

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Boogieshrew, post 180,
I do not have the impression that this is an extreme reaction, but if you have gone as a shop owner very far to do everything you can to promote and sell a top brand like Leica and if it is your source of income, it feels probably as an insult and betrayal to ban you from selling binoculars like the Retrovids, whereas I myself can not see any commercial reason why Leica is doing this. It will only limit their sales.
To my knowledge there was not any ongoing dispute with Leica before, the brand was promoted by the shop owners fullhartedly and they were really interested in all models including the historical ones. Actually the shop had all Leica models for sale including all rangefinder binoculars, the very expensive fancy models etc. etc. and that certainly can not be said from other Dutch binocular shops. These sales will now go to Zeiss, Swarovski, Meopta and all the other brands available in the shop.
Another Dutch large binocular shop that to my knowledge has banned Leica was the shop of the Dutch Bird Protection Association. However that had nothing to do with the introduction of the Retrovids as far as I know.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[F88]

Is this extreme action oh House of Outdoor caused by more than the Retrovid?

Feels to me like the restriction on the Retrovid may be the last straw on the camels back.
Was there a previous ongoing dispute?

This sounds more reasonable/logical to me.
I bought a new UV+ from a retailer who was exiting Leica. Come to think of it my '12-'15 Trinovid was bought from a retailer that no longer sells Leica as of sometime since.
Could it be that Leica are a bit of a diva like company to deal with? It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[F88]

Boogieshrew, post 180,
I do not have the impression that this is an extreme reaction, but if you have gone as a shop owner very far to do everything you can to promote and sell a top brand like Leica and if it is your source of income, it feels probably as an insult and betrayal to ban you from selling binoculars like the Retrovids, whereas I myself can not see any commercial reason why Leica is doing this. It will only limit their sales.
To my knowledge there was not any ongoing dispute with Leica before, the brand was promoted by the shop owners fullhartedly and they were really interested in all models including the historical ones. Actually the shop had all Leica models for sale including all rangefinder binoculars, the very expensive fancy models etc. etc. and that certainly can not be said from other Dutch binocular shops. These sales will now go to Zeiss, Swarovski, Meopta and all the other brands available in the shop.
Another Dutch large binocular shop that to my knowledge has banned Leica was the shop of the Dutch Bird Protection Association. However that had nothing to do with the introduction of the Retrovids as far as I know.
Gijs van Ginkel

Reminds me of a situation that may or may not have been an issue within the expensive Swiss watch scene. I remember being told that some of these items could be purchased at decent discounts from high end jewellers which annoyed the big brands so they restricted sales to their own boutique self branded stores to maintain complete control/high prices.
I do know that my closest Leica boutique charges absurd prices. Could be something in this theory?

 

[jring]

Hi,

since it now seems to be clear that Leica indeed intends to make the Retrovid a Leica store exclusive model (and whatever their staff said about availability to other dealers before is null and void), I can well understand that dealers are furious.

That being said, I have noticed that Leica is nowhere to be found on the current pages of Intercon Spacetec, a large german optics dealer (with a focus on the astro scene), any more although plenty of evidence of their former Leica affiliation can be found on Google (including the Retrovids announced in 2017). But I don't know the story behind that, unfortunately...

Joachim

 

[Renze de Vries]

Noctivids. No customer seemed interested in this binocular.

Which tells us something about the customer? About Jan? About Leica? About Gijs?

Renze

 

[Mike F]

........whereas I myself can not see any commercial reason why Leica is doing this. It will only limit their sales.........


To my knowledge there was not any ongoing dispute with Leica before......

I can’t see any commercial reason for the shop to do this either. Surely, if it was just about making as many sales as possible they wouldn’t ban Leica, and it’s not as if Leica has singled out this particular outlet. No, surely there must’ve been something going on with Leica before.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Mike F,
No there is nothing going against Leica in this shop, I specifically asked, but it may be hard to imagine in this greedy world that shopkeepers have a certain pride in their work and the dedication to it also to the brands they carry and have supported for so many years.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Mike F]

Mike F,
No there is nothing going against Leica in this shop, I specifically asked, but it may be hard to imagine in this greedy world that shopkeepers have a certain pride in their work and the dedication to it also to the brands they carry and have supported for so many years.
Gijs van Ginkel

Fair enough, but I still find it hard to understand Jan’s reaction here. It does seem somewhat extreme to me. If Leica had discriminated against him or his store chain specifically then of course I would understand, but they haven’t.

 

[etudiant]

Fair enough, but I still find it hard to understand Jan’s reaction here. It does seem somewhat extreme to me. If Leica had discriminated against him or his store chain specifically then of course I would understand, but they haven’t.

I don't think the reaction is extreme at all, considering that Leica is a premium brand whose dealers work in partnership with the firm to maintain the premium image. Getting shut out of the newest offering in favor of company owned stores certainly sends a message that some are more equal than others.
Why would an independent store continue to promote a firm that ignores their legitimate interests?

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

MikeF, post 189,
I am only the reporter here, but as far as I know Jan during the past years, he has a great pride and dedication to his work and the brands he sells. And he has gone very far to promote Leica also. Personnally I would not think about it to buy an historic Landrover, paint it bright yellow and make it a riding advertisement for Leica with the beautiful Leica binocular images on it. At the BHS meeting in Munich some time ago it drew an enormous amount of international attention. All to benefit Leica also. So it would not cost Leica a penny to offer the shop the opportunity to give the shop the complete programme to sell.
But Leica did not, so no Leica sales anymore from House of Outdoor. Commercially many shopkeepers would not think of it one moment, but not everybody is the same.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[chill6x6]

I don't think the reaction is extreme at all, considering that Leica is a premium brand whose dealers work in partnership with the firm to maintain the premium image. Getting shut out of the newest offering in favor of company owned stores certainly sends a message that some are more equal than others.
Why would an independent store continue to promote a firm that ignores their legitimate interests?

I tend to agree with you. Leica's handling of this definitely decreases the brand image in my eyes. I can't help but think of the dealers in the USA I buy binoculars from and maybe have a little rapport with some of these dealers that are now completely shut out from selling Leica's newest offering. So I can't call Cameraland or Sportsoptics to buy this binocular, Leica dealers I trust and do business with? I don't like it when folks tell me where I can and can not purchase stuff.

 

[Troubador]

I tend to agree with you. Leica's handling of this definitely decreases the brand image in my eyes. I can't help but think of the dealers in the USA I buy binoculars from and maybe have a little rapport with some of these dealers that are now completely shut out from selling Leica's newest offering. So I can't call Cameraland or Sportsoptics to buy this binocular, Leica dealers I trust and do business with? I don't like it when folks tell me where I can and can not purchase stuff.

Dead right Chuck

Lee

 

[Mike F]

I understand all the above comments, and really, this is OMHO, and I'm sure that Jan is a good dealer and has his reasons. I think the thing for me is that the Retrovid is exactly that - a retro boutique product, not intended to be a part of Leica's competitive line up.

Most of this thread has been a catalogue of reasons as to why many of the cognoscenti here will not consider the new Trinovids to be a worthy contender, and now we have dealers throwing the baby out with the bath water because they (like all other non-exclusive Leica dealers) are not allowed to sell the new toy. There seems to be some irony there to me. BUT, it's just my 2 cents. I'll shut up now! B

 

[John A Roberts]

As referred to by Gijs in post #191 - Jan’s ‘Nocti-Mobile’!


John

 

[Mike F]

I will say, just for the record, that I don’t think that Leica’s decision is a good one, just that the reaction to it seems to be a bit extreme. However, I can see that if you’ve even gone to the lengths of painting a vehicle like that to advertise a brand and then they take sales from you that it would be very annoying. Even my sisters tantrums where sometimes justified......

 

[Boogieshrew]

I am a bit mystified by both sides to be honest.

I understand neither Leicas limitation on the Retrovid nor HoO’s disregarding of all Leics products.

Seems to me that everyone loses.

 

[Hermann]

since it now seems to be clear that Leica indeed intends to make the Retrovid a Leica store exclusive model (and whatever their staff said about availability to other dealers before is null and void), I can well understand that dealers are furious.

You can say that again. My local dealer also isn't happy at all, and that's putting it mildly, especially since quite a few people pre-ordered one of the Retrovids in 2017.

BTW, didn't a guy associated with Leica post here with some regularity a few years ago? I'd really, really like to know Leica's thinking about this move.

Hermann

 

[Gabriel]

My take on this is that Leica is not entirely competitive compared to market leaders neither in binoculars nor in cameras, and therefore they are using their legacy and strong brand to target different customers. In short, I suspect we will see more Leica at Harrods and fewer at RSBP shops. This is of course my guess and I may be wrong.

I do have the impression that Leica has lost ground to Zeiss and Swarovski among birders. I see fewer Leicas when I am out birding. In the poll on Birdforum, they came in quite far below Zeiss and Swarovski. Scanning reviews of alphas, its quite long since I last saw Leica on top. Being number three in the market is generally not great for profits so I assume they are looking for options.

If they have lost among birders with high demands on performance, they still have a strong brand among a wider public. Leica is much more present than Zeiss and Swaro in high-end shops (airports, big department stores) and magazines (together with the likes of Rolex), i.e. targeting a different customer group than birders.

My guess is that they are going for customers that have a big wallet, are not so picky about performance but value good design and an iconic brand, e.g. people going to high-end safaris etc. Still, performance is good enough for 99% of all users.

This would also be a reason to give a lower priority to outlets where they compete head on with Swarovski and Zeiss and where both customers and staff are more demanding.

 

[jring]

BTW, didn't a guy associated with Leica post here with some regularity a few years ago? I'd really, really like to know Leica's thinking about this move.

Hi,

I think you mean Gary, but he's got his own repair shop now and has worked for Zeiss in between...

Joachim