new petition re driven grouse shooting (3 Viewers)

[Farnboro John]

My whole point from the start wasn't whether any of these campaigns were valid or not just simply that i was comfortable supporting them because i know that one will lead to another and so on. Now i was told in no uncertain terms that was not the case but here we are just a few weeks down the line and we already have the next campaign and you've just admitted that you wont stop until at the very least every single aspect of shooting has been changed which is bound to eventually include changes i dont want and dont agree with. I was never arguing about the rights and wrongs just simply stating that this is what would all i'm saying now is that you just proven all those people that said it wouldn't were wrong.

Bold = Non sequitur and absolute failure as an excuse for not embracing reasonable, conservation-orientated change that will actually make shooting both more attractive and sustainable as a hobby.

John

 

[Adam W]

I've already given my reasons why I actually don't agree that these campaigns really are the best conservation orientated actions to take but I take your point that I was talking hypothetically that even if I did agree then i wouldn't want to support them anyway. Well I honestly can't argue with you you are right, fear of what it might lead to isn't the best of reasons not to support something you actually agree with all I'm saying is put yourself in my shoes. If you had a hobby or in fact more than that a passion a way of life you couldn't imagine living without and someone came to you who isn't involved in that activity and says to you I'm not opposed to what you do but I'm going to try my best to change every single way in which you do it are you really saying you'd be happy to say okay mate fair enough how can I help you do that? Of course you wouldn't even if you actually agreed with some points and the reason you wouldn't is the same reason I wouldn't and that is what was said to me earlier in this thread, we are human that's what it comes down to, We don't like being told what to do and we especially don't like it if the people telling us don't have to do it and won't be affected by it like we will.
I'll say again I'm not really saying you are wrong I'm just saying i'm only human so don't expect me to be happy about or help you do it.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Adam,
If you don't mind me saying, I think you are caught up focusing on why you don't want to change or see changes that bring greater responsibility rather than focusing on all the positive reasons that these changes can bring to shooting industry on many levels. Oh, and there's the birds as well of course and I make no apology for putting their well being ahead of some outdated practices that you might want to protect for your own reasons.
I cherish seeing fauna and flora flourish but you seem to fearful of change that might mean that sportsmen have to behave more responsibly. Why wait for an outright ban on using lead for instance. Go on, why not take a leap of faith and move on? Is it really just too much to consider without being forced to do so?

 

[ProwlingBoy]

Adam,
... I cherish seeing fauna and flora flourish but you seem to fearful of change that might mean that sportsmen have to behave more responsibly. Why wait for an outright ban on using lead for instance. Go on, why not take a leap of faith and move on? Is it really just too much to consider without being forced to do so?

Meanwhile, yet another tagged Hen Harrier disappears near a grouse moor and a billionaire owner apparently secures lottery funding to help build a shooting hut.

 

[rosbifs]

Meanwhile, yet another tagged Hen Harrier disappears near a grouse moor and a billionaire owner apparently secures lottery funding to help build a shooting hut.

ffs

https://www.rspb.org.uk/community/o.../27/second-2016-hen-harrier-goes-missing.aspx

and what cunningham had to say about it
'That is why I have instructed officials to analyse the evidence from around 90 surviving and missing satellite-tagged eagles, to discover if there is a pattern of suspicious activity.'

Wonder what that might be then????

 

[coaltit]

As long as I know that grouse shooting is for profit and nothing else but to line peoples pockets at the expense of any bird of prey which gets in the way I,d condemn the sport for ever and even being a shooter you should understand that profit over nature does not tick any boxes for me it just outlines the real mindset of such people.

 

[Adam W]

Adam,
If you don't mind me saying, I think you are caught up focusing on why you don't want to change or see changes that bring greater responsibility rather than focusing on all the positive reasons that these changes can bring to shooting industry on many levels. Oh, and there's the birds as well of course and I make no apology for putting their well being ahead of some outdated practices that you might want to protect for your own reasons.
I cherish seeing fauna and flora flourish but you seem to fearful of change that might mean that sportsmen have to behave more responsibly. Why wait for an outright ban on using lead for instance. Go on, why not take a leap of faith and move on? Is it really just too much to consider without being forced to do so?

Yeah fair points Robin as i said to John i can't really argue i just can't make myself feel different just because you want me too either.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Yeah fair points Robin as i said to John i can't really argue i just can't make myself feel different just because you want me too either.

Yes, I do take on board how you must feel Adam and I wouldn't want to impose on you personally other than to hope a keen birder would take on-board logical consideration from another perspective which in most cases is backed by science and where fellow naturalists & conservation NGOs don't have a great commercial stake in shooting. (as others might). I really don't have any ambition to win you over - that's only something that can be done within yourself should you wish to.

 

[Adam W]

Cant say fairer than that Robin:t:

 

[Farnboro John]

Cant say fairer than that Robin:t:

And I in turn warmly welcome your comment above, Adam.

Cheers

John

 

[^monet^]

To put it more plainly perhaps - Do people here support the shooting of Pink Footed Geese or Wood Pigeons ?

 

[Farnboro John]

To put it more plainly perhaps - Do people here support the shooting of Pink Footed Geese or Wood Pigeons ?

If it's undertaken with steel shot, wounded birds are recovered to the maximum possible extent and the shot birds go into the human food chain (because I am partial to both) - and, though the prospect currently seems remote, provided an eye is kept on sustainability - no problem at all.

John

 

[Adam W]

Well its a big yes from me obviously as they are two of the main quarry I shoot, I agree with exactly what John says, Well apart from preferring Bismuth or Hevi shot to Steel for Geese but I guess not lead was the point.

 

[Robin Edwards]

If it's undertaken with steel shot, wounded birds are recovered to the maximum possible extent and the shot birds go into the human food chain (because I am partial to both) - and, though the prospect currently seems remote, provided an eye is kept on sustainability - no problem at all.

John

that would be a ditto from me too. Responsibility & Sustainability are the key points for me.

 

[_TheBirdNerd_]

Hi all,
The debate is to be held on the 31st of October. Everyone who signed the petition should of got an email about the date.

 

[John Cantelo]

Hi all,
The debate is to be held on the 31st of October. Everyone who signed the petition should of got an email about the date.

You can watch the submission of evidence tomorrow (Tuesday 18th October) at 14.15 via www.parliamentlive.tv/. Click Event Guide at the top of the page scroll across to Tues and on to reach 2.00 – 3.00 pm. Then scroll down to the line PARLIAMENT 6, click on the (i) ‘Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs Committee, Wilson Room.’ Then click PLAY.

 

[_TheBirdNerd_]

Thanks John

 

[alcedo.atthis]

This is what they are stating prior to the debate.

"The Government recognises the benefits that grouse shooting, and shooting more widely, bring to individuals, the environment and the rural economy. It is for these reasons that the Government believes shooting and other country pursuits such as hunting and fishing should be protected"

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs


A foregone conclusion me thinks!!


Malky


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164851

 

[John Cantelo]

This is what they are stating prior to the debate.

"The Government recognises the benefits that grouse shooting, and shooting more widely, bring to individuals, the environment and the rural economy. It is for these reasons that the Government believes shooting and other country pursuits such as hunting and fishing should be protected"

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs


A foregone conclusion me thinks!!


Malky


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164851

Many of DEFRA's comments seem little different from those by the shooting fraternity .... no attempt to canvass more widely.

 

[Jack Dawe]

The basic message here is that the government couldn't give a proverbial about our native wildlife. I've had similar from my MP about the Buzzard-killing affair. I used to know some civil servants who had to deal with Defra in their day job and their considered opinion of them was that they were a totally incompetent bunch of buffoons who couldn't manage anything efficiently. I've not seen anything to persuade me that my friends were mistaken. Of course, all civil servants and agencies exist to prop up MPs' tottering reputations, so it would have been naive to have expected any different response. But it does underline the impression that all the government cares about is money. They really do know the price of everything and the value of nothing.