New Swarovski binoculars soon (1 Viewer)

[henry link]

Brock,

I suppose this thread is wandering pretty far from new Swarovski binoculars, but I'll add a little to Ronald's experience with Optolyth.

The Alpins use a very similar optical design to the Swarovski Habichts, conventional cemented objectives and simple 3 element Kellners in the narrow field models and 6 element Erfles in the wide field models, but there the similarities end. I bought a 10x50 Alpin long ago. I found it to be flimsily constructed with seriously undersized prisms which reduced the true aperture to about 45mm. The Ceralin multi-coating was probably the best thing about the binocular, very high transmission with neutral colors, combined with the simple design made for a very bright contrasty image, but I wouldn't be at all interested in these at Deutsche Optik's price. The Nikon 8x30/10x35 EIIs are superior in every way. I suspect you can find performance equivalent to the Optolyths in $100 Chinese binoculars.

Henry

 

[brocknroller]

Brock,

I suppose this thread is wandering pretty far from new Swarovski binoculars, but I'll add a little to Ronald's experience with Optolyth.

The Alpins use a very similar optical design to the Swarovski Habichts, conventional cemented objectives and simple 3 element Kellners in the narrow field models and 6 element Erfles in the wide field models, but there the similarities end. I bought a 10x50 Alpin long ago. I found it to be flimsily constructed with seriously undersized prisms which reduced the true aperture to about 45mm. The Ceralin multi-coating was probably the best thing about the binocular, very high transmission with neutral colors, combined with the simple design made for a very bright contrasty image, but I wouldn't be at all interested in these at Deutsche Optik's price. The Nikon 8x30/10x35 EIIs are superior in every way. I suspect you can find performance equivalent to the Optolyths in $100 Chinese binoculars.

Henry

Henry,

Thanks for that comparison btwn the Swaro Habichts and the Opotolyth Alpins. I found a BF thread that echoes Ron's and your comments about the poor build quality of Alpins.

I think this is a lesson for us all, that just because it says "made in Germany" (not sure they are actually made in Germany, most manufacturing is outsourced these days), but at least designed in Germany, it doesn't mean that the binocular is necessarily top quality.

I like the Alpin Classics appearance (reminds me of the old Zeiss B/GAs); it's too bad the they aren't built as tough as they look.

I'm always looking for high quality porros, particularly in the 8x42 and 10x42/50 configurations.

All my 8x bins are 30-35mm. I find the 8x32 SE, in particular, doesn't give up much to a 8x42 in light transmission (even in those dark corners that few people look, but I do since I have a heavily wooded backyard), and when they fail me due to dim lighting, I use my 8x50 Octarems. So perhaps I don't really need an 8x42.

10x is a little hard to handle for me these days, but I still like the extra reach at times, and wish I didn't see the barrel distortion with the 10x42 LX, which I was otherwise very pleased with.

I liked the 10x35 E2, but the 3.5mm exit pupil was somewhat limiting, because I live in an area where it's often overcast, and I also found it a bit dim in the winter compared to the 10x42 LX. And like my other porros, the focuser stiffens up in the winter.

I tried the 10x42 SE, but found the FOV too restrictive even though it has the same specs as the LX, but perhaps due to my deep set eyes, I can't see the entire FOV.

So I'm still searching to fill that 10x niche in my collection left by the sale of my Celestron/EO 10x50 ED, which gave excellent views, but the 50* AFOV felt too restrictive.

I'd like to try a Leica Trinovid 10x50 BA sometime. I've read good reviews of that bin, though it is somewhat heavy. I'd also like to try the Canon 10x42 IS LS, but I'm leery about it, because of the cost of repairs after the electronics fizzle.

Sorry for meandering off topic, however, since there's scant info on the new Swaros, we'll have to wait until Swarovski follows up on its teaser to continue our discussion.

Brock

 

[Kevin Conville]

OK captain, first your quote in my post and my unedited response.

Originally Posted by captain vallo
I find it incredible and dissapointing that my Swaro EL's images have some yellow tints in some circumstances, and the Leica BR's have the worst focussing i have ever used.

I find it incredible that you bought them, and that you apparently hadn't returned them to Leica for correction.
Why would you put up with that?

The color in the Swaro's may not be fixable, I don't know, but the focusing of the Leica is.

added:
It now occurs to me after re-reading your statement that you might not have purchased the Leicas and that you were judging Leica BRs (Ultravids) in general. You've sampled a lot of them no doubt to make your assertion. Funny though, I have a pair of Ultravids that focus smoothly and quickly. I know of a few others that have no issue with the Leica's focusing as well. Now I, like others, have read of the "ratchety" focus issue, but haven't encountered it myself. Seemingly this isn't a universal problem, so keeping one's comments regarding a mechanical issue like this should probably be kept in the context of a specific pair, or two.

When you say it's "incredible" that they focus poorly and I respond I find it "incredible" you bought them, it is a rhetorical way of asking why did you buy defective binoculars?

And when I write "and that you apparently hadn't returned them to Leica for correction." I mean why you didn't you return them after discovering(?) they were defective.

And when I say "why would you put up with that?" I mean why would you put up with that?

Are you saying that I shouldn't state that the pair of Leica BR's I owned had an issue with the focus wheel.
Of course not. I was looking for a better explanation and some context.

The point I was making is that despite the vastly inflated price of the top bins they can still either have generic imperfections and possibly worse in my mind occasional build quality issues.
"Vastly inflated price"?
Define inflated as it relates to these binoculars. Are you saying the manufacturer is over charging? The dealers? How can you know this? Do you know their costs? Are you blaming inflation in general? Unfavorable currency exchange?

I can understand statements like: Despite the very high price. Or: To me, they are not worth the high price.

As a rule top end 'stuff' should be designed and built for the purpose, along with the very best of materials and quality control and built to the tightest possible tolerances ... then the costs are calculated. Whilst low end 'stuff' is as a rule designed to a price with cost savings made in materials and quality control and wider manufacturing tolerances.
The reality doesn't necessarily match up however. Most everything is built with an eye on costs.

When I buy my cheaper items, I know that I have to do my own quality control, I dont expect it on the Leica BR's.
QC is QC and independent of sale price. We shouldn't have to inspect and evaluate any bino that that is sold by an authorized dealer IMO.

The issue with the Swarovski is generic issue and a compromise of design, whilst the fault with the returned Leica's may very well have been a one off, but as the very experienced salesman advised me that it was a recurring issue which had been addressed in the HD's, leads me to think that its a design weakness.
Now here's some context. The focus issue undoubtedly exists. Or did. One of the points I originally was trying to make is that it seemingly isn't very common and if one has a copy of the offending binos from Leica, they'll fix it .

When Swaro realised they had made an error with the slow focus of the earlier EL's they fixed it.
And.. it seems Leica has done much the same.

Lastly, I'm not trying to bust your balls captain. There's a certain amount of unqualified hyperbole on these forums and I'd like to see it kept in check as it's not helpful to anyone.

 

[captain vallo]

New Swaro's update

Completely bored of previous discussion ... so back to topic.

Whilst in my local optical supplier today purchasing Zeiss Victory 8x32's I asked whether he had got to see the new Swaro EL's this week.

His retort was that he wasn't supposed to tell anyone ... yeah of course. So half an hour later and having looked at the new brochure and after some very technical discussions about the new configuration, most of which went way over my head, I will try and summarise in no particular order:

They look remarkably similar to current model except that the barrels are straighter, ie less of a taper towards the eye pieces.

Despite physical similarity they are completely re-engineered in almost all areas (so why they didn’t rename them?)

The 32mm won’t be out for another 12 months at least

RRp is about £1600

Close focusing is 1.2m

2 geared focussing system with 1 turn from infinity to 2.?m and 1 turn from 2.?m to 1.2m.

The current model (42mm I presume) is being phased out now.

The image is totally flat … apparently its perfect.

The edge to edge is perfect (his words not mine)

It appears to contain has several extra lenses (no doubt some of you will know the ‘system’ or name of this

He was unable to compare against other makes during demonstration but despite extra lenses doesn’t believe brightness will suffer.

In short he believes that these new ‘EL’s will leave all others standing’


No scientific methodology above, just passing on as much info as I can recall from conversation today.

 

[edwincjones]

sounds good,
and I hope that it lives up to the hype,
but I will keep my old outdated EL for a while longer

edj

 

[ingle1970]

Does this mean we can expect lots of "old outdated EL`s ", on the second hand market ?.......

 

[FrankD]

It is now likely that I will buy the Zeiss victory FL 8x30, before the proposed price hike, but they only do everything just a little bit better than bins half the price.... but one thing is for sure, they do do everthing just a little better.

With that thought in mind then I would probably suggest trying the 8x30 Zeiss Conquests as they are at about 1/3rd the price of the FLs and only sacrifice field of view and eye relief (the latter may or may not be an issue).

Sorry if it was I that might have led you astray with the Vortex Furys. Some excellent bins but I had heard there was a reported issue initially with the focusing/diopter mechanism.

 

[captain vallo]

With that thought in mind then I would probably suggest trying the 8x30 Zeiss Conquests as they are at about 1/3rd the price of the FLs and only sacrifice field of view and eye relief (the latter may or may not be an issue).

Sorry if it was I that might have led you astray with the Vortex Furys. Some excellent bins but I had heard there was a reported issue initially with the focusing/diopter mechanism.

FrankD see response in Zeiss forum

 

[edwincjones]

sounds good,
and I hope that it lives up to the hype,
but I will keep my old outdated EL for a while longer

edj

but, I am getting older, my eyes are fading, so I can see the logic of getting the best optics possible to make up for my failings.

edj

 

[captain vallo]

but, I am getting older, my eyes are fading, so I can see the logic of getting the best optics possible to make up for my failings.

edj

Wonderful, the way we convince ourselves. .... I decided last night that I too would buy some if they are as good as the hype .... now I just have to come up with a reason too.

Perhaps we could start a 'Why I need those new Swaro's' suggestion thread...

 

[ticl2184]

New EL

Dear all

The new Swarovski EL HD's were shown at slimbridge, gloucester England on Wednesday the 16th of July.

There will be 2 models. A 8.5x42 and a 10x42.
Specification for the 10x are: weight 800grams, fov 112m, eye relief 20mm. price £1690:00.
8x 795grams, fov 133m, eye relief 20mm, price £1630.

The binoculars also have a completly flat field with 6 lenses in the objective end of the bino's. This is a new development called swarovision.
Additionally they incorporate HD glass.

I've got some photos of the new bins which I will try to add to this message.


Regards

Tim Clark

 

[Pileatus]

I heard the new Swarovski was almost as good as a Nikon SE 8X32.

 

[dipped]

Press release translated here plus first picture!

Nev

 

[karmantra]

Dear all

The new Swarovski EL HD's were shown at slimbridge, gloucester England on Wednesday the 16th of July.

There will be 2 models. A 8.5x42 and a 10x42.
Specification for the 10x are: weight 800grams, fov 112m, eye relief 20mm. price £1690:00.
8x 795grams, fov 133m, eye relief 20mm, price £1630.

The binoculars also have a completly flat field with 6 lenses in the objective end of the bino's. This is a new development called swarovision.
Additionally they incorporate HD glass.

I've got some photos of the new bins which I will try to add to this message.


Regards

Tim Clark

Tim: Did they change the eyepiece ring on the new ELs? Are they using click stops on the new eyepiece?

 

[Roefisher]

Hi everybody,

I'm new here so I would like to say hello, first.

At the moment, I've got a pair of the 8.5x42 EL's and am following these new ones very carefully. They seem to be a step forward but I'll look forward and judge on some user reviews before maybe changing over.

Although I'm not sure, I am guessing that these are the first Swarovski binoculars with the new lens features?

Mark

 

[ticl2184]

Eyepiece rings are new with click stops.
This is due to the larger diameter of the eyepiece.

Forgot to mention that bins are goin to be on sale from September 2008 in UK.

Regards

Tim

 

[FrankD]

I heard the new Swarovski was almost as good as a Nikon SE 8X32.

Come on now John...behave.

I need to come up a with a reason to buy these as well. Maybe if the Mrs. and I are fighting one time then I can use this as a good reason to force her into a divorce.

New EL picture from the link above listed below....

 

[dipped]

Even more info and pictures here

Nev

 

[ceasar]

Even more info and pictures here

Nev

Why bother?
The Canon 10 x 42 IS has about the same specs (weight, FOV, waterproof) AND it has IS to boot! And it costs about $1200.00!

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4213


Bob

 

[dipped]

Why bother?
The Canon 10 x 42 IS has about the same specs (weight, FOV, waterproof) AND it has IS to boot! And it costs about $1200.00!
Bob

36.8oz v 28oz for the EL's - the 2nd generation of the Canon's around 28oz would be very interesting if it could be done.

Nev