New to Bird/Wildlife Audio Recording :) - Gain/Trim & Fader and other basic settings to get started? (1 Viewer)

[Joe94]

Good Morning, Hope everyone is well?

I have recently acquired a Zoom F6 Audio recorder with a Rode NTG5 shotgun mic (hopefully one day ill upgrade to a parabolic), which I'm hoping to learn the art of audio field recording; primarily of Birds & Nature/wildlife - with the plan of eventually using it to record the audio for my video work too, where ill then learn to sync the audio and video together in post.

However for now, whilst im focusing on the Audio side of things, I wondered if anyone could recommend a good Gain/Trim level to start with for recording Birds ect.. and where the Fader levels sit well? Also for bird/nature recording is there a sweet spot for the Bit & Sample rate to be used?

I appreciate these levels can be very subjective based on the individual listening, the gear and the individual noise a specific bird is making, but yeah any kind of general guid would be very much appreciated. Also any other audio recording tips for birds and wildlife, would be very very much appreciated : )

Thank you.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

As you say the gain levels will be partly dependent on the bird you are recording. The required gain will also be influenced by the mic you use (so the parabola you mention, would be different to the shotgun you have). The ideal gain also depends on circumstance (in particular how close you are to the bird - sound pressure is inversely proportional to the distance squared, so a bird 20m away is 4 x quieter than a bird 10m away and 16 x quieter than a bird 5m away - 1 over 400 compared to 1 over 100 and 1 over 25.)

For best recording, it is good to have a bird singing for a reasonable period of time from a song post at a fixed distance. You can then monitor and adjust the gain, then press record when you are happy with the levels. You don’t want to change levels mid recording. Ideally the meters should peak at about -3dB, so on most recorder meters, into the orange, but avoiding the red. By setting the gain to a good level, you avoid amplifying unwanted noise, which occurs when you raise the levels ‘globally’ in post production software, or by cranking up the volume when listening. You need to avoid going over 0dB (well into the red) as the recording would then be clipped and the sound distorted (unless you have a 32bit recorder).

In practice this ‘ideal’ recording level may be difficult to achieve. You may find the you end up pushing the gain too much, resulting in audible noise/hiss. I think with practice you will learn what levels to start at and how far you can adjust the gain while still finding the sound acceptable. I would suggest starting with some ‘well behaved’ subjects, and keeping a record of what works as a guide.

With regard to sample and bit rates, the bit rate determines the dynamic range (I.e the range between the quietest and loudest noise). I think for most recorders the maximum sound level remains constant, so the variations is in the lowest possible sound levels. This means that lower bit rates raise the ‘noise floor’. A lower bit rate could therefore raise the noise level above the inherent level of the equipment. Sounds complicated, but I would suggest using the highest bit rate possible. The sampling rate impacts the highest frequencies that can be captured - basically the highest frequency that can be recorded is 1/2 the sample rate. CD quality is 44.1K, so sounds up to 22kHz can be captured, which is more than enough for human hearing. If however, you recorded at 20kHz sample rate, you would not capture sounds about 10kHz - and a few birds sing at 10kHz and above. With the low price of memory cards, there is a trend towards recording at higher sampling rates - you can always later create a version of a recording at a lower rate, but you can’t create a version at at higher frequency rate and expect to regain high frequency data, not captured in the original recording. I would suggest that you record wav files at at least 44.1kHz. It is probably over the top, but I tend to record at higher rates and then render down to 44.1 later.

Hope this has not made things sound too complicated.

Regards

Jon Bryant

 

[Joe94]

As you say the gain levels will be partly dependent on the bird you are recording. The required gain will also be influenced by the mic you use (so the parabola you mention, would be different to the shotgun you have). The ideal gain also depends on circumstance (in particular how close you are to the bird - sound pressure is inversely proportional to the distance squared, so a bird 20m away is 4 x quieter than a bird 10m away and 16 x quieter than a bird 5m away - 1 over 400 compared to 1 over 100 and 1 over 25.)

For best recording, it is good to have a bird singing for a reasonable period of time from a song post at a fixed distance. You can then monitor and adjust the gain, then press record when you are happy with the levels. You don’t want to change levels mid recording. Ideally the meters should peak at about -3dB, so on most recorder meters, into the orange, but avoiding the red. By setting the gain to a good level, you avoid amplifying unwanted noise, which occurs when you raise the levels ‘globally’ in post production software, or by cranking up the volume when listening. You need to avoid going over 0dB (well into the red) as the recording would then be clipped and the sound distorted (unless you have a 32bit recorder).

In practice this ‘ideal’ recording level may be difficult to achieve. You may find the you end up pushing the gain too much, resulting in audible noise/hiss. I think with practice you will learn what levels to start at and how far you can adjust the gain while still finding the sound acceptable. I would suggest starting with some ‘well behaved’ subjects, and keeping a record of what works as a guide.

With regard to sample and bit rates, the bit rate determines the dynamic range (I.e the range between the quietest and loudest noise). I think for most recorders the maximum sound level remains constant, so the variations is in the lowest possible sound levels. This means that lower bit rates raise the ‘noise floor’. A lower bit rate could therefore raise the noise level above the inherent level of the equipment. Sounds complicated, but I would suggest using the highest bit rate possible. The sampling rate impacts the highest frequencies that can be captured - basically the highest frequency that can be recorded is 1/2 the sample rate. CD quality is 44.1K, so sounds up to 22kHz can be captured, which is more than enough for human hearing. If however, you recorded at 20kHz sample rate, you would not capture sounds about 10kHz - and a few birds sing at 10kHz and above. With the low price of memory cards, there is a trend towards recording at higher sampling rates - you can always later create a version of a recording at a lower rate, but you can’t create a version at at higher frequency rate and expect to regain high frequency data, not captured in the original recording. I would suggest that you record wav files at at least 44.1kHz. It is probably over the top, but I tend to record at higher rates and then render down to 44.1 later.

Hope this has not made things sound too complicated.

Regards

Jon Bryant

Hello Jon,

Thank you so much for this! As you say it can certainly get complicated haha but I have to say everything you have said makes sense to me and really does help answer some of the questions I have.

If I may, I do have a follow up in regards to the Gain/trim side of things. So what you have said make total sense and I appreciate every scenario can be different, but your tips around good places to start and aim for is really helpful.

However if my understanding is correct gain is set first and effects the input noise, whereby you would then use faders (my F6 has fader knobs on the front - gain is done in the menu) to then fine tune the output noise - whether it be a stereo track or just the mono track? So if im on the right lines, how would I use the faders? Also my recorder has 2 headphone options I believe - pre fader and post fader - for bird recording is it best to hear the noise pre fader (while setting gain) or post fader?

As for sample rate and bit rates, that also really makes sense and in that case I will aim as you say to record higher sample rate and then if needed reduce in post - again with that in mind are you able to recommend some good post software? I have been looking at reaper... seems to be reasonable price yet can do really top level things - I would rather learn the basics in software that can also do bigger pro stuff for when im ready to say create track for video ectt.

Again Thank you for your help and support with the Jon, very much appreciated : )

 

[Mono]

The Zoom F6 you have is a multi-input recorder where the gain and faders are used for different things. A normal workflow when dealing with multiple inputs would be to monitor each input separately with the the fader at 0dB and then adjust the gain so that at maximum source volume you are not clipping. Do that for each input separately then you can turn down the faders, on the fly, to create the mix that you want with knowledge that you won't clip.

The post fade and pre fade listens can be used to monitor your different sources. The pre fade option removes the fader from the path so you hear the source at maximum volume, but you are still recording at the post fade level. The post fade option allows you to listen to the levels as they are being recorded.

All this is of course moot if you are just using a single source, but then if you are just using a single source the F6 is a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Hi Mono,

Thanks for the specifics about the F6 and the work flow. I didn’t realise this was a multi-track recorder with four mic inputs when I made my initial reply.

Looking at the F6 manual signal flow paths, it looks like the faders are on the LR mix to SD and that tracks 1-4 can be recorded to SD direct, but without fade control. Do you know if this is correct? When I started using a different multitrack recorder I found faders really difficult to understand at first - a recording session twiddling knobs with no impact. Then a look at the routing diagram and a quick question to SoundDevices made things a lot clearer.

 

[Joe94]

The Zoom F6 you have is a multi-input recorder where the gain and faders are used for different things. A normal workflow when dealing with multiple inputs would be to monitor each input separately with the the fader at 0dB and then adjust the gain so that at maximum source volume you are not clipping. Do that for each input separately then you can turn down the faders, on the fly, to create the mix that you want with knowledge that you won't clip.

The post fade and pre fade listens can be used to monitor your different sources. The pre fade option removes the fader from the path so you hear the source at maximum volume, but you are still recording at the post fade level. The post fade option allows you to listen to the levels as they are being recorded.

All this is of course moot if you are just using a single source, but then if you are just using a single source the F6 is a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Thank you Mono, this definitely helps my understanding of how the recorder works and the grain vs fader side of things. As for the post & pre fade, your explanation makes it really clear and with what you have said, I presume its better to listen to the output track whether it be one or multiple mic's either way?

In regards to the mic, I do apreciate for a single mic then the F6 could be a little over thank needed, however although I did not mention it in my OP for bird recordings, I also have a pair of Condenser mics and another mic to have ago at some other multi track recording/mixing too

 

[Joe94]

Hi Mono,

Thanks for the specifics about the F6 and the work flow. I didn’t realise this was a multi-track recorder with four mic inputs when I made my initial reply.

Looking at the F6 manual signal flow paths, it looks like the faders are on the LR mix to SD and that tracks 1-4 can be recorded to SD direct, but without fade control. Do you know if this is correct? When I started using a different multitrack recorder I found faders really difficult to understand at first - a recording session twiddling knobs with no impact. Then a look at the routing diagram and a quick question to SoundDevices made things a lot clearer.

Apologies Jon, being new to the device and audio recording as a whole aha I didn't realise having the 6 mic inputs changed things

From what I have understood the knobs on the F6 control the fader level of either the LR stereo track or just the single input track if only recording a mono track and then the gain is set via the menu.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Hi Joe,

I don't think things are that different if you are using a single mic. If this is routed to the LR recording and the balance is set to centre, then you will record two equal tracks (in effect dual mono). The trim and gain will them work as Mono described very well above.

The same is also true if you add additional mics and create a LR mix in the field. In this case you can set the balance for each mic (to adjust the ratio of signal split between the left and right tracks). The trim and fades would then control the mic levels. In this case you probably will want the main subject to be as close as possible to -3dB, but other parts of the mix to be substantially lower (so not as to drown out the main subject).

Setting the trim based on the maximum sound levels and fading down is easier when you are recording instruments or voice and can do sound checks. In the dynamic and transient world of wildlife recording, I tend to 'guess' a trim level than use the faders in the field. If you try to set trim and then adjust fade when you find a subject, it may well have stopped vocalising of moved by the time you finish adjusting settings!

The slight complexity with my recorder (not an F6) comes if I want to record multiple tracks but do not want to combine them in a LR mix in the field. As I understand you are only using the one mic for the moment, it is probably best to ignore all the blurb below for the moment. With my recorder, if I am recording to separate tracks, then I can set the trim of the mics, but the faders don't work. Looking at the block diagram for the F6, I think this may also be true for your recorder. The diagram below is from the F6 user manual and shows that the trim (yellow) is on all lines, but the TR1-6 Faders and LR Fader (both green) only affect the LR tracks and the Line Out and Headphones. Tracks 1,2 and 5 and 6 do not have fader control. As Mono described, the headphone monitoring can either be pre or post faders, as highlighted in blue. Pre-fader would allow you to check the source and post fader to monitor the left-right recording mix, being recorder to you SD card.




I understand the situation is slightly different in the F6 32bit float recording mode. In this mode, I don't think you set trim in the same way. Instead by default you set the recording levels and faders with the same knobs, with the knobs setting recording levels prior to pressing record, and setting the faders during recording (see text box in extract of diagram below, which points to the recording levels and faders).

I think the basic logic of not having the faders on the individual tracks, is that you set the levels for a track with trim or recording levels, and control the mix with the faders.

As the F6 is one of a select few 32-bit float recorders, if you use this mode the recording levels are more forgiving, so if you set the recording levesl too high you can get away with it. I have read somewhere that in theory 32 bit float provides headroom to record up to 1500dB (Krakatoa was the loudest noise every recorded at 310dB, so a noise this loud, would probably be enough to not only to destroy you and your recording gear, but also all life on earth!). The F6 apparently warns if the signal is greater than +2dB. As 3dB is circa a doubling of sound level, you have quite a lot of wiggle room if you set the recording level too high and go above 0dB. In this case you would load the 32bit file into your post production software and reduce the level to -3dB without loosing any information or having any distortion. The only problems with 32 bit float and high sampling rates is that the file size is large and that battery life is reduced.

With regard to your question on software, lots of people use Audacity for simple recordings, which is free. For multi-track work, Reaper is modestly priced, and seems to work well, although it takes a bit of study to understand. If you are doing lots of video work and have a subscription with Adobe to use Premier Pro, then I understand Audition interfaces well, but this is a more expensive option.

Apologies for making things so complex, but your recorder is not a simple 'twiddle the gain and press record' option.

Regards

Jon Bryant

 

[Joe94]

Hi Joe,

I don't think things are that different if you are using a single mic. If this is routed to the LR recording and the balance is set to centre, then you will record two equal tracks (in effect dual mono). The trim and gain will them work as Mono described very well above.

The same is also true if you add additional mics and create a LR mix in the field. In this case you can set the balance for each mic (to adjust the ratio of signal split between the left and right tracks). The trim and fades would then control the mic levels. In this case you probably will want the main subject to be as close as possible to -3dB, but other parts of the mix to be substantially lower (so not as to drown out the main subject).

Setting the trim based on the maximum sound levels and fading down is easier when you are recording instruments or voice and can do sound checks. In the dynamic and transient world of wildlife recording, I tend to 'guess' a trim level than use the faders in the field. If you try to set trim and then adjust fade when you find a subject, it may well have stopped vocalising of moved by the time you finish adjusting settings!

The slight complexity with my recorder (not an F6) comes if I want to record multiple tracks but do not want to combine them in a LR mix in the field. As I understand you are only using the one mic for the moment, it is probably best to ignore all the blurb below for the moment. With my recorder, if I am recording to separate tracks, then I can set the trim of the mics, but the faders don't work. Looking at the block diagram for the F6, I think this may also be true for your recorder. The diagram below is from the F6 user manual and shows that the trim (yellow) is on all lines, but the TR1-6 Faders and LR Fader (both green) only affect the LR tracks and the Line Out and Headphones. Tracks 1,2 and 5 and 6 do not have fader control. As Mono described, the headphone monitoring can either be pre or post faders, as highlighted in blue. Pre-fader would allow you to check the source and post fader to monitor the left-right recording mix, being recorder to you SD card.

View attachment 1390398


I understand the situation is slightly different in the F6 32bit float recording mode. In this mode, I don't think you set trim in the same way. Instead by default you set the recording levels and faders with the same knobs, with the knobs setting recording levels prior to pressing record, and setting the faders during recording (see text box in extract of diagram below, which points to the recording levels and faders).
View attachment 1390405
I think the basic logic of not having the faders on the individual tracks, is that you set the levels for a track with trim or recording levels, and control the mix with the faders.

As the F6 is one of a select few 32-bit float recorders, if you use this mode the recording levels are more forgiving, so if you set the recording levesl too high you can get away with it. I have read somewhere that in theory 32 bit float provides headroom to record up to 1500dB (Krakatoa was the loudest noise every recorded at 310dB, so a noise this loud, would probably be enough to not only to destroy you and your recording gear, but also all life on earth!). The F6 apparently warns if the signal is greater than +2dB. As 3dB is circa a doubling of sound level, you have quite a lot of wiggle room if you set the recording level too high and go above 0dB. In this case you would load the 32bit file into your post production software and reduce the level to -3dB without loosing any information or having any distortion. The only problems with 32 bit float and high sampling rates is that the file size is large and that battery life is reduced.

With regard to your question on software, lots of people use Audacity for simple recordings, which is free. For multi-track work, Reaper is modestly priced, and seems to work well, although it takes a bit of study to understand. If you are doing lots of video work and have a subscription with Adobe to use Premier Pro, then I understand Audition interfaces well, but this is a more expensive option.

Apologies for making things so complex, but your recorder is not a simple 'twiddle the gain and press record' option.

Regards

Jon Bryant

Hello Jon,

THANK YOU so much for this! Yes it is complex haha but the way you have so kindly explained it and linked it to the diagrams too has really really helped my understanding.

Not only do I now feel more confident in my understanding of the difference between trim & fader / pre fade & post fade, but I also feel a lot more confident in my understanding of how sound recorders work in general - When I first say these diagrams a few days ago I was mind boggled haha but you have turned that around for me for sure!

It may seem strange to many, but yeah although for now I am going to start with basic mono track (single mic) recording of bird noise and with that in mind the F6 probably does seem OTT; however for my getting the F6 and extra mics was not just about recording birds sound, but to also give me something to learn. I wanted to get equipment now that I can learn about and then use with my expanded new learned knowledge.

I have always loved technology and the digital world and have a particular interest in photography & videography, but the one thing I have never really learned about properly was the digital world of audio (apart from commercial music/tv speakers & headphone), but proper raw audio recording was one thing I have not got great knowledge with and so is something I want to learn all about : )

So yeah again thank you very much for this post and your previous posts because it really has and is helping me understand and learn my new skills : )

 

[Steinn1]

Hi
Congrats with new great recorder! I have not used the F6 yet, but will have one within a weeks time. But I have 1 year experience with SoundDevices Mixpre3 II who also runs 32-bit float files. I always do FULL gain input also with telinga parabola and then do the rest in post. Using Audition to adjust to 0 dB and you can NOT destroy files whatever level you get in the original file, which also will work in your F6! Guess you all have seen this one from SD 32-Bit Float Files Explained - Sound Devices THis means you do NOT have to worry about levels in field but concentrate on the sounds/birdies and do the rest of the work on the computer
NB EM-272 makes a great pair if you like to make ur own parabolic mic or other setup! See micbooster
Stein

 

[WRL]

@Stein: May I ask why you are "changing" from Mixpre to Zoom F6? Any problems with the Mixpre? Or is the F6 just an addition to your gear? I am curious because I have a Mixpre-3 II explicitly for the bird sound recording purpose and cannot imagine what I am missing. Is it the 6 inputs at the F6 compared to "only" 3 on the Mixpre?
Regards
Werner

 

[Steinn1]

Hi Werner
The Mixpre3 II creates fantastic files, although there are a few issues I do not like. One is the need of High-end SD-card, battery consumption on long recordings (during all-night) and fiddly on-off button. Also the possibility to pause during recording I miss with the Mixpre. I use my works equipment so now when I retire I need my own and then I go for F6, I will not buy any other than able to use 32 bit float files, that really makes the difference
Stein

 

[Jason Bugay Reyes]

As you say the gain levels will be partly dependent on the bird you are recording. The required gain will also be influenced by the mic you use (so the parabola you mention, would be different to the shotgun you have). The ideal gain also depends on circumstance (in particular how close you are to the bird - sound pressure is inversely proportional to the distance squared, so a bird 20m away is 4 x quieter than a bird 10m away and 16 x quieter than a bird 5m away - 1 over 400 compared to 1 over 100 and 1 over 25.)

For best recording, it is good to have a bird singing for a reasonable period of time from a song post at a fixed distance. You can then monitor and adjust the gain, then press record when you are happy with the levels. You don’t want to change levels mid recording. Ideally the meters should peak at about -3dB, so on most recorder meters, into the orange, but avoiding the red. By setting the gain to a good level, you avoid amplifying unwanted noise, which occurs when you raise the levels ‘globally’ in post production software, or by cranking up the volume when listening. You need to avoid going over 0dB (well into the red) as the recording would then be clipped and the sound distorted (unless you have a 32bit recorder).

In practice this ‘ideal’ recording level may be difficult to achieve. You may find the you end up pushing the gain too much, resulting in audible noise/hiss. I think with practice you will learn what levels to start at and how far you can adjust the gain while still finding the sound acceptable. I would suggest starting with some ‘well behaved’ subjects, and keeping a record of what works as a guide.

With regard to sample and bit rates, the bit rate determines the dynamic range (I.e the range between the quietest and loudest noise). I think for most recorders the maximum sound level remains constant, so the variations is in the lowest possible sound levels. This means that lower bit rates raise the ‘noise floor’. A lower bit rate could therefore raise the noise level above the inherent level of the equipment. Sounds complicated, but I would suggest using the highest bit rate possible. The sampling rate impacts the highest frequencies that can be captured - basically the highest frequency that can be recorded is 1/2 the sample rate. CD quality is 44.1K, so sounds up to 22kHz can be captured, which is more than enough for human hearing. If however, you recorded at 20kHz sample rate, you would not capture sounds about 10kHz - and a few birds sing at 10kHz and above. With the low price of memory cards, there is a trend towards recording at higher sampling rates - you can always later create a version of a recording at a lower rate, but you can’t create a version at at higher frequency rate and expect to regain high frequency data, not captured in the original recording. I would suggest that you record wav files at at least 44.1kHz. It is probably over the top, but I tend to record at higher rates and then render down to 44.1 later.

Hope this has not made things sound too complicated.

Regards

Jon Bryant

Thanks a lot Jon for refreshing back my memory. I will set my recorder for higher sampling rates too and see the results with my older recordings etc

 

[WRL]

Hi Werner
The Mixpre3 II creates fantastic files, although there are a few issues I do not like. One is the need of High-end SD-card, battery consumption on long recordings (during all-night) and fiddly on-off button. Also the possibility to pause during recording I miss with the Mixpre. I use my works equipment so now when I retire I need my own and then I go for F6, I will not buy any other than able to use 32 bit float files, that really makes the difference
Stein

Thank you Stein for your explanantions.

I may add a few personal experiences with or thoughts about the Mixpre relating to your "points".
1. SD cards - I never thought about it, actuallly. Just took one I had at hand (previously used in my Fujifilm camera). It happens to be a 64 GB SanDisk Ultra XCI, 80 MB/s, class 10. That is more or less standard and not expensive, I daresay. They now go for 10 € or less, even with a faster writing rate. By-the-way: I leave the card always installed since I use the automatic USB-stick backup otpion. So file transfer is only done via USB stick or the direkt USB-C PC conncetion.
2. Battery consumption - yes it is high and the 4xAA batteries in the provided tray are more or less only an emergency option. My solution is powerbanks connected to the USB-C port. I have two Anker 20000 mAh banks. One fully charged bank works for more than 15 hours with one phantom powered microfon connected. I proofed that by test. Should be enough for a long nocmig night, I suppose.
2. On-off button - why they designed and positioned it the way it is remains a mystery, not only to both of us. A kind of remedy or work-around is: leave the unit on during the whole time you make recordings. Provided you have a good powerbank, I doesn't matter. The Mixpre will work for a whole working day.
3. Pausing - Frankly, I personally never missed that function. I have an Olympus LS-P4 which has it and I may have utilized it there once or twice over time. However, since my workflow is to transfer all files to my PC anyway I can stitch files together with a DAW (mostly Audacity), delete time passages and what not. I even see a reasoning in not being able to pause: the Mixpre assures that all files it generates are consistent in terms of time (nothing cut or added). It may not be of such importance for our use, it may be for other purposes (film, movie?), though.

I just checked the F6 specifications on their website. They give a lot of figures for the F6 power consumtion, with a baseline of 10 W (in contrary there are no explicit published power consumption figures for the Mixpre, as far as I can see, may be for good resaon). The F6 looks quite good with 4x AA NiMH batteries ("phantom power off", however). Would be very interesting how this comes out with your own setup and usage.

It will be very interesting for me what your experience with the F6 will be. Since you are already quite familiar with the Mixpre (its pros and cons) you will easily see the differences and how they affect your workflow. If you don't mind may I ask you to share them with us?

Finally, I am convinced both units will produce very similar suberb audio files. They (together with their "bigger brothers") stand out with their ability to do 32bit float which helps a lot in field recording.

Regards
Werner

 

[Steinn1]

Hi Werner and guys!
Now I've received the F6 and first point is that on/off is a bit awkward placed if in a bag (low right below headphone-plug)
AND I find it hard to find out how to set the machine to get a R/L stereo signal IN (Telinga stereo) and a L/R stereo recording into the SD-card with no hazzzel... A bit more advanced than the F4, MP3 II I have used earlier!!
So if anyone out there has a tip or two how to set 32-bit float with maximum gain in and out to SD I need the advice.. The rest I do in Audition (set to 0DB) and Audacity for filtering etc.

Seems the Sony battery will work for days on the F6 so a 12V-charger and a couple of batteries will do for even a long field trip
Yours Stein

 

[Steinn1]

Thank you Stein for your explanantions.

I may add a few personal experiences with or thoughts about the Mixpre relating to your "points".
1. SD cards - I never thought about it, actuallly. Just took one I had at hand (previously used in my Fujifilm camera). It happens to be a 64 GB SanDisk Ultra XCI, 80 MB/s, class 10. That is more or less standard and not expensive, I daresay. They now go for 10 € or less, even with a faster writing rate. By-the-way: I leave the card always installed since I use the automatic USB-stick backup otpion. So file transfer is only done via USB stick or the direkt USB-C PC conncetion.
2. Battery consumption - yes it is high and the 4xAA batteries in the provided tray are more or less only an emergency option. My solution is powerbanks connected to the USB-C port. I have two Anker 20000 mAh banks. One fully charged bank works for more than 15 hours with one phantom powered microfon connected. I proofed that by test. Should be enough for a long nocmig night, I suppose.
2. On-off button - why they designed and positioned it the way it is remains a mystery, not only to both of us. A kind of remedy or work-around is: leave the unit on during the whole time you make recordings. Provided you have a good powerbank, I doesn't matter. The Mixpre will work for a whole working day.
3. Pausing - Frankly, I personally never missed that function. I have an Olympus LS-P4 which has it and I may have utilized it there once or twice over time. However, since my workflow is to transfer all files to my PC anyway I can stitch files together with a DAW (mostly Audacity), delete time passages and what not. I even see a reasoning in not being able to pause: the Mixpre assures that all files it generates are consistent in terms of time (nothing cut or added). It may not be of such importance for our use, it may be for other purposes (film, movie?), though.

I just checked the F6 specifications on their website. They give a lot of figures for the F6 power consumtion, with a baseline of 10 W (in contrary there are no explicit published power consumption figures for the Mixpre, as far as I can see, may be for good resaon). The F6 looks quite good with 4x AA NiMH batteries ("phantom power off", however). Would be very interesting how this comes out with your own setup and usage.

It will be very interesting for me what your experience with the F6 will be. Since two Sony you are already quite familiar with the Mixpre (its pros and cons) you will easily see the differences and how they affect your workflow. If you don't mind may I ask you to share them with us?

Finally, I am convinced both units will produce very similar suberb audio files. They (together with their "bigger brothers") stand out with their ability to do 32bit float which helps a lot in field recording.

Regards
Werner

Hi,
agree with most of what u say about the Mixpre3 II, I sometimes use playback and have turned down and up the gain-knob but a bit fiddly in the midst of it in field.. I used one or two Sony video-batteries on the SD and that works really fine, same goes now for the F6 and the battery placed below the case is very well designed! Tested it 2 nights and battery is still green after 6 hours of constant recording. There is a number inside the battery status bar (went from 8.6 to 7.1 during the night) and nill idea if it is hours left showing here. The setup obviously not meant for birders, found I had to channel/track 1 &2 put Phantom Power 48V and then in the menu tell the machine to create a LR Only out, then it creates a stereo file. It can make 2 separate files and a LR-mix filling the SD-card AND I had to set the Headphone out volume in the menu to get sound in my HPhones. SEDGE WARBLER CALLS

 

[Jon.Bryant]

With regard to above comments on the Mix-Pre power consumption, I opted for the Hawkwoods SD-4. This allows the use of camcorder batteries. The device connects to the mic-pre and has a 30cm cable to the battery sled. This means you can place the sled and battery in the front pouch of a recorder bag for easy assess. Seemed a better option than the Sound Devices battery sled options, particularly the camcorder version, where I recall that the batteries stick out at an odd 90 degrees angle to the recorder, making it rather bulky/awkward.

Regards

Jon Bryant

 

[Vollmeise]

Hi there, let me just add my 2 cts concerning power solutions using SD Mixpres.

As mentioned and proofed, the standard 4AA battery holder will last around 2 - 2.5 hours w/ two 48V poweded mics attached.

The optional battery compartment for 8 batteries supplies the Mixpre with energy for up to 5 hours (e.g. with 8 Eneloops 2500 mA).

The latter is my favorite when it needs to be compact and handy.

For NocMig I use batteries from the Makita 18V system, simply because I already own some of them and cause their capacity is up to 108 Wh each. When connected w/ the Makita 2x USB Adapter and SD cable (2x USB A > USB C) this would last for around 24 hours non stop recording.

Recharging is super fast, the 18V/6Ah (108Wh) is recharged completely in less then 1 hour.

Cheers, Vollmeise

 

[Passakorn]

I am wondering if you could comment on the Rode NTG5 so far? I am considering getting one as well as the ME66 is not available in Thailand.]
Thank you so much.
Ake

 

[Steinn1]

Hello Jon,

THANK YOU so much for this! Yes it is complex haha but the way you have so kindly explained it and linked it to the diagrams too has really really helped my understanding.

Not only do I now feel more confident in my understanding of the difference between trim & fader / pre fade & post fade, but I also feel a lot more confident in my understanding of how sound recorders work in general - When I first say these diagrams a few days ago I was mind boggled haha but you have turned that around for me for sure!

It may seem strange to many, but yeah although for now I am going to start with basic mono track (single mic) recording of bird noise and with that in mind the F6 probably does seem OTT; however for my getting the F6 and extra mics was not just about recording birds sound, but to also give me something to learn. I wanted to get equipment now that I can learn about and then use with my expanded new learned knowledge.

I have always loved technology and the digital world and have a particular interest in photography & videography, but the one thing I have never really learned about properly was the digital world of audio (apart from commercial music/tv speakers & headphone), but proper raw audio recording was one thing I have not got great knowledge with and so is something I want to learn all about : )

So yeah again thank you very much for this post and your previous posts because it really has and is helping me understand and learn my new skills : )

Hi Joe,
Have u figured out the best way to set up for maximum input gain (internal??) I use my F6 only with 32-bit float and a stereo mic (input 1 & 2) to create a LR stereo output. Also I struggling with Headphones and monitoring, this is a lot better on the Mixpre3 II ! Have u found a nice setup for this, using Bose and Sony and do get the same result (difficult to monitor smoothly..). But overall recordings are great, listen to these Barn swallows preparing to leave as it was 0C and snow in the mountains.. XC674253 Barn Swallow (Hirundo rustica)
Yours Stein, Norway