New user with NL Pure 10x32 Problem (1 Viewer)

[zesprianu]

Hello everyone, this is my first post so I'm going to introduce myself, I'm a beginner bird watcher from Spain (sorry if my English isn't very good), I've been bird watching for a few years and little by little, thanks to this forum, I've become interested in optics.
The binoculars that work best for me are the 10x ones, about 6 years ago I bought some Nikon Monarch 7 10x42, they are my favorite binoculars and I've used them almost daily, looking for something better about 4 years ago I bought some Swarovski NL 10x42, which I really liked but the weight always bothered me, so a few months ago I decided to sell them and buy some NL 10x32, now comes the problem and the reason for this post.
I find the NL 10x32s to be fantastic, bright and sharp view, perfect focuser, light weight and better rubber coating than the 10x42s, but I can't avoid the blackouts, I've tried setting the IPD and eyepieces in many ways but I always see some blackouts, it seems like there's no position where they don't appear a little, I've become obsessed with this and now when I go out with them I'm more concerned with looking for blackouts than bird watching, when I look at a specific subject the view is fantastic and very immersive but as soon as I move the binoculars a little different types of blackouts appear, in comparison, I find the monarch 7s much more comfortable and only appear blackouts in some quick pans, but in the NL they are always there.
Can anyone who has these same binoculars give me some advice? or should I just accept that the smaller exit pupil always causes this problem?
Thanks and sorry for the long post.

 

[[email protected]]

The NL 10x32 is going to a little more prone to black-outs because it has a smaller EP than a 10x42, but you should be able to minimize them if you adjust it perfectly. Try adjusting your IPD, as well as your eye cup length, to see if you can reduce them. By adjusting the IPD, you can get the EP more centered over your retina. You may have to go in between the click stops on the eye cups on the NL 10x32 to get your perfect setting. Also, try tilting the binoculars with respect to your eye sockets to see if that helps. What click stop do you have the eyecups set on?

 

[MiddleRiver]

Hola,
I can’t speak about Swaro’s directly, but with other binos susceptible to blackouts, I’ve concluded that you have to get position of pupil just right. Eyecup extension and IPD become critical. With my little 8x30SFL it matters which eyeglasses I’m wearing (I have wire-rimmed as well as plastic framed).
Good luck!

 

[Owlbarred]

I understand: I had the same vexing problem. Carefully adjusting and readjusting the eyecups proved futile. The solution for me was discussed yesterday in the post below. As I noted in that post, I don't wear glasses.
Using the NL Forehead Rest to eliminate blackouts: 10x32 NL

 

[Viraj]

I too get blackouts in my NL 10x32, but not more than I see it with NL 8X42. I don't have any experience with NL 10x42 though. I only tried it for a few minutes in a store. Howerver, for me NL 10x32 perform better than NL 8x42 in regards of blackouts. I guess it is all about different face shapes. You may try ajusting IPD and eyecups positions however forehead rest might also help in this case to get the perfect eye position.

 

[zesprianu]

Thanks for the answers, I don't have the forehead support to do the test and I think it would be uncomfortable.
I use the eyepieces in the furthest position, but it's hard for me to find the exact point to avoid blackouts. If I move my eyes away from the eyepieces I see the blackouts like in photo 1, and if I bring them closer I get the typical kidney-shaped ones like in photo 2 (this second thing also happens to me with the monarchs, but in the monarchs between photo 1 and 2 there is a lot of space to position the eyes and not see blackouts, in the NL it's like going from photo 1 to 2 with no middle ground).
Could it be that the NLs with their wide-field eyepieces always produce a bit of blackout like in photo 1? Is it a design problem?

 

[Owlbarred]

Thanks for the answers, I don't have the forehead support to do the test and I think it would be uncomfortable.

I thought the same thing last year when BF member, Tehri, suggested I use the forehead rest set to 0 (fully inward) to solve a problem I was having with my 8x42 NLs. Moreover, I thought his suggestion was a bit ridiculous. Neither proved to be true. See attached thread and posts.

Forehead Rest: Unsatisfactory range of adjustment for 8x42 NL ​

I just hate to see you suffer -- I had the same frustrating problem with my 10x32 you're now having. You can buy and return a FR if it doesn't work for you - wish I could send you mine for a trial.

Regardless, good luck. The 10x32 NL -- now remedied for me with the FR used as described -- is now a formidable optical tool. Again, I do not wear glasses.

 

[Maljunulo]

I think that if your IPD is correctly set, and you are still getting blackouts, you may be too close to the eyepieces.

Try backing off, and run the eyecups all the way out, if you don't wear glasses.

I do not believe that blackouts and kidney beans are inherent in any correctly aligned binocular.

 

[Owlbarred]

I think that if your IPD is correctly set, and you are still getting blackouts, you may be too close to the eyepieces.

Try backing off, and run the eyecups all the way out, if you don't wear glasses.

Good suggestion. But given his commentary, I suspect that zesprianu has futilely tried that -- I know I certainly did, making futile ad infinitum eyecup adjustments before using the FR solution that eliminated the problem.

 

[Maljunulo]

And did the "FR solution" change the distance between your eyeballs and the occular lenses of the binocular, from what it was previously?

 

[Owlbarred]

Of course it did. I’m not going to play any hypothetical games with you. I’ve learned from previous threads that it’s a waste to do so. Pardon my frankness. My goal was to help the poster, not engage in drivel. Again, pardon my frankness.

 

[Maljunulo]

My original point was that the distance of eyeball to ocular was off, assuming that the IPD was set correctly. Since the FR solution changed that distance, and solved the problem, perhaps my hypothesis was proven to be true.

If you think that is "playing hypothetical games" and "drivel" I'm not sure what to say.

 

[claves_10]

Well I have to admit that something similar happens to me. I want to believe that is due to the exit pupil of the bino. 10x32 gives a narrower sweet spot for both eye pupils...even though your pupil dilates/contracts to 2,5mm in a sunny day as some mentioned in the forum.

 

[tenex]

or should I just accept that the smaller exit pupil always causes this problem?

I want to believe that is due to the exit pupil of the bino.

That is absolutely not so. I've used BN 10x32 for two decades, also FL for the last few years, and tried a couple of others, none of which ever gave any difficulty with blackouts, either for me or my wife. Rather, this is a specific problem with very complex eyepieces like NL (and SF) which are trying to deliver everything at once: flat field, extra-wide view, extra-high eye relief for eyeglasses, and so on. They simply become more fiddly to use; the eyecup steps get ever finer (NL has 6?) but one may still have to try to set something in between for best results. IPD may also require similar precision.

It should be possible for you to learn to use this NL without blackouts, but may frankly just prove too difficult. Viewing comfort is a principal reason why some people prefer more conventional optical designs, so you may well be happier with something like EL, FL, or UV. (In 42 I also like SLC.) Given the level of service available as needed, pre-owned is a reasonable option.

 

[claves_10]

But Tenex this issue is commented more often in the 10x32 NL bino rather than in the 10x42 NL or other. Magnification and objective size has .....something to do with black outs in the NL design of course each individual face .. too.

 

[ReinierB]

I sold my EL 10x42 partly because of blackouts. It just didn't have the right eyecup position for me. Now I have the NL 10x32 and I do not have any difficulties regarding blackouts. It simply has the perfect eyecup postion for me. I don't like using the headrest with it. It doesn't improve anything for me.
However, sometimes I just grap my SLC 8x42 because of the generous exit pupil of 5.25mm! Especially when it gets dark, I prefer a larger exit pupil.

 

[zesprianu]

I have ordered the headrest to try it out, it will arrive in a few days.
I am a little disappointed with these 10x32, they are very uncomfortable for me, lately I only use my monarchs, the NL always stay at home.

 

[james holdsworth]

The format, it seems, is always going to be finicky. I’ve got 10x32 SFs, and they are no where near as easy to use as something like an 8x42, in terms of eye placement and ease of view.

 

[tenex]

Oddly enough, I haven't immediately noticed blackouts in any of several NLs I've tried myself, though those were only brief trials, with no rush to see a bird quickly. Many happy users seem to have no complaints at all (one eyecup stop may be a perfect fit?) and perhaps I could become one myself. And yet others do have a problem.

But Tenex this issue is commented more often in the 10x32 NL bino rather than in the 10x42 NL or other. Magnification and objective size has .....something to do with black outs in the NL design of course each individual face .. too.

What strikes me is not that there may be more complaints about the 10x32 than other NLs, but that there are more about NLs than other models (most of which generate none or hardly any). And since exit pupil size has nothing to do with blackouts generally, there's no obvious reason to suppose that it does in this particular case. Some other design peculiarity of NL 10x32 may contribute to its eyebox difficulties. I think I haven't tried that one, as it happened not to be in stock when visiting my local shop.

The format, it seems, is always going to be finicky. I’ve got 10x32 SFs, and they are no where near as easy to use as something like an 8x42, in terms of eye placement and ease of view.

Some people particularly dislike a small exit pupil... but they don't complain of blackouts from it. And they must not be very happy either with pocket bins, or scopes. To turn this argument around, I now have some experience with EPs as large as 5.6mm, and while I can say that there is something pleasant about the moment I bring those to my eyes, ten seconds later I've forgotten about it and it simply doesn't matter in (daylight) use.

 

[Owlbarred]

I have ordered the headrest to try it out, it will arrive in a few days.

Smart move.

Added a post several days ago to my earlier thread (link below, post #4) that may prove helpful. Take the time to find the adjustment what works best for you. Again, I don't wear glasses.

Excerpt:
"Significance: The justifiable fuss about making micrometer-scale eyecup adjustments to eliminate vexing 10x32 NL blackouts may not work for some (did not work for me) and is unnecessary when using the FR as described above and in post #1. Instead, the method above allowed for a comparatively large range of eyecup adjustments (positions 0-1) that banished blackouts when using the Forehead Rest with the 10x32 NL."

Using the forehead rest to eliminate blackouts: 10x32 NL