New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (1 Viewer)

[Troubador]

I'd say not. How do we know this person wouldn't have said the same thing about the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV? The only reviews that are useful with respect to these questions are those that are comparative and or explicit (quantitative). I'm up to my ears in reviews of past bins with slow focus that say that the focus seemed fast and intuitive. Better are reviews that contain comments along the lines of "some have complained it is slow but actually, at normal birding distances from ~20 ft outward it seems fine, only requiring 1 (or 1.5, or...) turn of the knob." At least with a description like that, a discerning reader can tell that the bin has slow focus.

I think the only possible hopeful news would be to find that the 1.8 turns spec is erroneous or includes movement past what would be infinity focus for those with proper vision (emmetriopia or appropriate correction).

--AP

Alex

I am hoping to put that right by getting hold of both an SF and an EL SV and doing a shootout. o

Should be interesting.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

Lee

I could lay money on the outcome. The SF is going to be the best binocular available; that is until the ZK in 2 years time. Remember, the HT surpassed every thing else just 2 years ago.

Haven't bothered looked at the patent drawings for SF as I have had SF focusing for many years.

Have a good time at The Birdfair.

Stan

Well, Stan some things never change or rather most things have an upward spiral.

For example the cost of living keeps on going up but its still very popular. :-O

Lee

 

[Vespobuteo]

Lee,


Also - Can you take a smartphone with you to Birdfair and report directly? :cat:

Chosun :gh:

Good idea!

I expect at least one live broadcast reporting on the SF!
Try Bambuser it´s free:

http://bambuser.com/broadcasts

 

[Troubador]

Lee

I could lay money on the outcome. The SF is going to be the best binocular available; that is until the ZK in 2 years time. Remember, the HT surpassed every thing else just 2 years ago.

Haven't bothered looked at the patent drawings for SF as I have had SF focusing for many years.

Have a good time at The Birdfair.

Stan

Stan

Here is the serious answer to your point. I think you are suggesting that SF is replacing HT after only a couple of years and that SF itself will similarly be replaced after a short time and so on, ad infinitum.

Well that isn't so because SF is not replacing HT at all. SF is joining HT in the Zeiss line-up so that folks have a choice of what 'flavour' of top Zeiss they would like.

As for how long HT and SF will stay in the range I have no idea but FL lasted 8 or 9 years.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

Bird Fair Reporting

My hotel does have wi-fi so I will be able to post on Friday night!

Lee

 

[ticl2184]

I don't think my hotel has a roof, let alone wi-fi.

Who will be the 1st to post.... Me or Lee.

Goin be a Birdforum, shoot out at the Birdfair Corral


Tim

 

[dalat]

It makes me wonder why the SF focusser is discussed as being slow here?

Maybe it has been mentionned before and I missed it (been off internet and BF for a while and have not read through the whole lot of new posts here.), but 1.8 turns for a bin with a 1.5 m close focus is in no way slow!

To the contrary, it must be very fast, I'm rather fearing it may be too fast for my taste.

When comparing focus travel of bins, the close range needs to be considered, as focussing in close range needs much more turning than in the far range. Probably the SF will be something like 0.9 turns from 1.5m to 2m and anther 0.9 turns from 2 m to infinity.

Kammerdiner has measuremed that the SV needs 0.7 turns from 3 m to 100 m while it needs 2.5 turns from 1.5m to infinity. Not many complains of the SV being too slow, so the SF must be very fast indeed.


I'm also confused by the talk about the dual-speed focus used in the Zeiss DiaScope also being used in the SF? I read nothing about this in the Zeiss info on the SF, where does this idea come from?

 

[Vespobuteo]

It makes me wonder why the SF focusser is discussed as being slow here?

Maybe it has been mentionned before and I missed it (been off internet and BF for a while and have not read through the whole lot of new posts here.), but 1.8 turns for a bin with a 1.5 m close focus is in no way slow!

To the contrary, it must be very fast, I'm rather fearing it may be too fast for my taste.

When comparing focus travel of bins, the close range needs to be considered, as focussing in close range needs much more turning than in the far range. Probably the SF will be something like 0.9 turns from 1.5m to 2m and anther 0.9 turns from 2 m to infinity.

Kammerdiner has measuremed that the SV needs 0.7 turns from 3 m to 100 m while it needs 2.5 turns from 1.5m to infinity. Not many complains of the SV being too slow, so the SF must be very fast indeed.


I'm also confused by the talk about the dual-speed focus used in the Zeiss DiaScope also being used in the SF? I read nothing about this in the Zeiss info on the SF, where does this idea come from?

Zeiss have extended their patent on the dual-speed focuser so it could be used on binoculars as well, the updated patent was filed about the same time as the SF was presented.

But early preview reports on the SF mention nothing about any unusual focus properties.

Obviuously zeiss really want to tell us that the focuser is faster than the main competitors.

I have the 7x42 FL and it needs only 1.125 turns from 1,5m to infinity (specs say close focus is 2 m), it's fast but I would rather have a bit more accuracy.

I think 1.8 turns will be just fine.
The bigger focus wheel will give a bit more accuracy as well.
Probably a very good compromise between speed and accuracy.
The big FOV will also make it a bit easier to find close-up objects.

 

[Troubador]

I don't think my hotel has a roof, let alone wi-fi.

Who will be the 1st to post.... Me or Lee.

Goin be a Birdforum, shoot out at the Birdfair Corral

Tim

Tim

He who shoots fastest isn't always the most accurate o

Lee

 

[eddy the eagle]

We had an old saying" Speed is fine accuracy is final".....Eddy

 

[Troubador]

We had an old saying" Speed is fine accuracy is final".....Eddy

Nice one Eddy, but who is the 'we' ?

SAS? Marine Commandos? Your local darts team? :-O

Lee

 

[eddy the eagle]

I am sorry can't say official secrets act and all that.....eddy.

 

[Alexis Powell]

It makes me wonder why the SF focusser is discussed as being slow here?

Maybe it has been mentionned before and I missed it (been off internet and BF for a while and have not read through the whole lot of new posts here.), but 1.8 turns for a bin with a 1.5 m close focus is in no way slow!

Yes, it is. If you actually use the bin in both the close range and far ranges (as in combo butterflying birding), it is slow. Compare to the Zeiss 8x32 FL and old version Brunton Epoch, both of which focus this close (the Brunton down to under 1 m) but go to infinity in 1 turn or less.

Not many complains of the SV being too slow, so the SF must be very fast indeed.

Again, depends on who you ask. Those who actually use bins in the close range almost universally agree that the SV is painfully slow (to the extent that I refuse to use them). So the very constituency who actually cares about the close focus spec is not served. The design is incomplete. I say either build bins with slow and distant focus, or with close capable and fast focus, or better yet (to have wide range with speed and precision) with close capability and variable-ratio focus.

--AP

 

[dalat]

Well, the 8x32 is specified with close focus of 2m, the SF with 1.5m. The fl may work closer for you than specified, but perhaps the SF will too. All speculation before real comparisions anyway...

 

[Chosun Juan]

It makes me wonder why the SF focusser is discussed as being slow here?

Maybe it has been mentionned before and I missed it (been off internet and BF for a while and have not read through the whole lot of new posts here.), but 1.8 turns for a bin with a 1.5 m close focus is in no way slow!

To the contrary, it must be very fast, I'm rather fearing it may be too fast for my taste.

When comparing focus travel of bins, the close range needs to be considered, as focussing in close range needs much more turning than in the far range. Probably the SF will be something like 0.9 turns from 1.5m to 2m and anther 0.9 turns from 2 m to infinity.

Kammerdiner has measuremed that the SV needs 0.7 turns from 3 m to 100 m while it needs 2.5 turns from 1.5m to infinity. Not many complains of the SV being too slow, so the SF must be very fast indeed.


I'm also confused by the talk about the dual-speed focus used in the Zeiss DiaScope also being used in the SF? I read nothing about this in the Zeiss info on the SF, where does this idea come from?

Florian, if the SF is being discussed as slow, that's because the specs indicate that it is. Mark hit upon a useful concept in the concept of the focal distance traversed in one "swipe"; and Jerry further added focus wheel diameter into the mix.

The proof will be in the pudding, but I'm guessing more than one swipe to go from 10ft to 300ft for the SF or at least an uncomfortably big one. To give you some context my Zen-Ray ED3 takes one full turn from close focus (6ft) to infinity. It has a knurled metal focusing wheel of ~ 34mm diameter, and of course turns in the only sensible direction to infinity - that's clockwise!! It takes 1/4 turn (0.25) to go from 10ft to 300ft. I cannot imagine anything much slower being optimal for rapid focusing on skittish geewhizzits |8.| The Zen is a similar size to the SF and both are open bridge. In my large hands I end up bracing thumbs in the indents on the opposite barrel and my forefinger(s) then go over the focus wheel so that the pads of my fingers also operate on the opposite side of the wheel. I use two fingers which fit on the deep (long) Zen wheel in a push - pull operation - this gives me extreme braced steadiness and rapid focusing within the one swipe over typical operating distances. It would be absolutely perfect if it wasn't for the 1-2mm backlash in the mechanism. If my Mark I eyeballs and fingers happen to overshoot the focus point or the target moves, then I can rapidly reverse at full speed onto the spot. This will be impossible and clouded by jiggery-poo with the SF.

Also the SF does not have dual speed focusing as in the scope, or any sort of variable pitch. It has a coarse and fine pitch speed which operates ONLY in the other direction AFTER you have overshot the focus point. Whether this proves to be Smart, Intuitive, Any one of several senses (including Common , Voodoo Magic, just plain Annoying, of no Real Relevance, or a Backwards Step, only hands-on for each individual and time will tell. :cat:

All we know for sure is that the focusing is slow, though faster than the Swaro!

Baby steps, Baby steps! 3



Chosun :gh:

 

[dalat]

I'm guessing more than one swipe to go from 10ft to 300ft for the SF or at least an uncomfortably big one.

Kammerdiner measured 0.7 rotations for the SV in this range, according to the specs, the SF should have less than that.

But well, we've seen here that the right speed depends on many things and is very personal. The Zeiss FL 10x32 is way too fast for me, for example, so I hope the advertised fast SF focusser is not faster than that.

Also the SF does not have dual speed focusing as in the scope, or any sort of variable pitch. It has a coarse and fine pitch speed which operates ONLY in the other direction AFTER you have overshot the focus point.

I've read now the discussions about the patent etc., but I've not yet seen any indication that the SF has anything other than a normal focusser. No info provided by Zeiss mentions anything about dual speed or coarse or fine etc. Or is there any?

The Zeiss press release has been pretty clear on what they mean with "smart focus":
- the shift of the focus wheel to the side of the hand and the thin bridge requiring no spacing of fingers
- some kind of great rubber on the focus wheel
- 1.8 turns, which they consider as fast
- close focus of 1.5 m

Apart from the first one, nothing really new or groundbreaking here. If there were anything more fancy like dual spead or whatever, I'm sure it would not have been forgotten in the press release.

 

[Troubador]

I have the 7x42 FL and it needs only 1.125 turns from 1,5m to infinity y.

VB

Your FL takes 1.125 turns from near to far??

I'm sorry but guesstimates like this are unacceptable, please try and be more accurate

Lee

 

[Chosun Juan]

VB

Your FL takes 1.125 turns from near to far??

I'm sorry but guesstimates like this are unacceptable, please try and be more accurate

Lee

405 degrees! 8-P

 

[Troubador]

I've read now the discussions about the patent etc., but I've not yet seen any indication that the SF has anything other than a normal focusser. No info provided by Zeiss mentions anything about dual speed or coarse or fine etc. Or is there any?

The Zeiss press release has been pretty clear on what they mean with "smart focus":
- the shift of the focus wheel to the side of the hand and the thin bridge requiring no spacing of fingers
- some kind of great rubber on the focus wheel
- 1.8 turns, which they consider as fast
- close focus of 1.5 m

Apart from the first one, nothing really new or groundbreaking here. If there were anything more fancy like dual spead or whatever, I'm sure it would not have been forgotten in the press release.

Florian

The best indication is that Zeiss has named this model after its focus mechanism, which strongly suggests Zeiss thinks this is pretty smart.

Lee

 

[dalat]

Zeiss is pretty clear about what they think is "smart". Here the full quote on the focus from the press release:

Unlike the traditional double-link bridge, with the focusing mechanism located below the focusing wheel found on the top of the binoculars, the new VICTORY SF relocates this mechanism in a bridge that extends above the focusing wheel. This shifts the wheel closer to the focusing hand than the traditional double-link bridge, resulting in considerable ergonomic benefits. There’s more room for the hand. The main progress in this innovation is that the index finger no longer needs to be extended towards the eyepiece while constantly focusing, but can be held naturally and straight, and moved without tension. A newly developed anti-slip profile on the focusing wheel greatly improves the grip and prevents slipping, even in wet conditions. The translation of the focusing wheel was specifically adapted to the needs of nature viewers. Requiring just 1.8 rotations from the greatest to the smallest focusing distance of just 1.5 meters, it is far more dynamic than conventional binoculars, which require 2.5 rotations. It is very easy to set a precise level of focus. All of these features are combined in the comfortable focusing ergonomics under the name of “Smart Focus”, abbreviated in the model name with “SF”.