New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (1 Viewer)

[Chosun Juan]

Pure marketing drivel gents .... (for which I might add we all pay a pretty penny) :-C

Florian, the real story of the coarse - reverseroo - fine pitch jiggery-poo is contained in the details of the patent. I for one remain to be convinced that there's anything "Smart" about it .... there's certainly nothing overly quick about it ...
:eat:

"Dynamic" is a relative term. I once had an accountant foisted on me who was described as "dynamic" ...... turned out to have the personality of a brown paper bag! |8.|

Large focus wheels ameliorate the effects of 'fast' focusers and are to be preferred - the most important thing is that it is a precision mechanism. In really close focus bins a 'true' variable pitch focuser as Alexis has suggested is the only logically sensible option. :cat:


Chosun :gh:

 

[dalat]

Florian, the real story of the coarse - reverseroo - fine pitch jiggery-poo is contained in the details of the patent.

Could you point me to a link to that patent? There is some patent linked further up in this thread, but it is about microscopy and not binoculars or focusers. Does the patent you talk about say anything about Victory SF?

 

[Chosun Juan]

Could you point me to a link to that patent? There is some patent linked further up in this thread, but it is about microscopy and not binoculars or focusers. Does the patent you talk about say anything about Victory SF?

Florian, that's probably the one I looked at - it's quite long and involved and from memory, yes, does mention binoculars. I forget how, but I followed a related link to end up at the diagram. It does make mention of the coarse and fine pitch focusing mechanism of a microscope and how it has been adapted to operate when backtracking an overshot coarse pitch focus mark in fine pitch mode and integrated in the one focus mechanism. http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3036472&postcount=580


Chosun :gh:

 

[dalat]

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3036472&postcount=580

In this link I get a patent about "HIGH-RESOLUTION LUMINESCENCE MICROSCOPY" with nothing about binoculars or focussing in it. Probably the links got mixed up?

 

[Chosun Juan]

Zeiss Patent reference Link?

Yes ..... curiouser and curiouser ! :cat: :cat:
That WAS the link in that post that I followed originally ... However something has now obviously changed. On my phone so can't burn up copious amounts of battery and data searching - if someone could dig it up again it would be much appreciated! :t:


Chosun :gh:

 

[Pileatus]

Zeiss is pretty clear about what they think is "smart". Here the full quote on the focus from the press release:

I can't wait for the first "fast focus" complaint. That should be worth another 700 posts! At least the price is right.

 

[Chosun Juan]

I can't wait for the first "fast focus" complaint. That should be worth another 600 posts! At least the price is right.

I think that's only likely from disillusioned Swaro owners after too much expresso in the morning!

Have to disagree with the pricing being right though .... it's over inflated by at least the 10% or more they've wasted on the marketing department to come up with that "7th Sense" frippery :eek!:


Chosun :gh:

 

[Troubador]

Yes ..... curiouser and curiouser ! :cat: :cat:
That WAS the link in that post that I followed originally ... However something has now obviously changed. On my phone so can't burn up copious amounts of battery and data searching - if someone could dig it up again it would be much appreciated! :t:


Chosun :gh:

Go to: http://www.google.com/patents/US20140160561

Someone

 

[Troubador]

I think that's only likely from disillusioned Swaro owners after too much expresso in the morning!

Have to disagree with the pricing being right though .... it's over inflated by at least the 10% or more they've wasted on the marketing department to come up with that "7th Sense" frippery :eek!:


Chosun :gh:

Its priced right in relation to EL SV, although all of us could wish they would both come down a bit or rather a lot :smoke:.

Whether its right for you CJ is another matter

Lee

 

[Chosun Juan]

Go to: http://www.google.com/patents/US20140160561

Someone

Yes, that's the one - thanks Lee. Somebody give that man a medal! :t:



Chosun :gh:

 

[Vespobuteo]

In this link I get a patent about "HIGH-RESOLUTION LUMINESCENCE MICROSCOPY" with nothing about binoculars or focussing in it. Probably the links got mixed up?

try this one instead:

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?Docid=...ageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=FA01E2AAFCEE

(the previous link I posted had been outdated)

As far as I can understand it is an application for a patent, not a valid patent, yet.

 

[Vespobuteo]

VB

Your FL takes 1.125 turns from near to far??

I'm sorry but guesstimates like this are unacceptable, please try and be more accurate

Lee

sorry Lee, but the laser equipment I used for the measurement
was not calibrated, otherwise I had been able to give you another decimal...

 

[dalat]

Hi Lee and Vespobuteo, thanks for posting the good links.

I see what you're talking about now. Complicated reading. But from what I can get of the content, and from the first paragraph, this seems to be an extension to the US of an older German patent on the DiaScope focus system (patented for both bins and scopes).

This application is a continuation application of international patent application PCT/EP2012/064807, filed Jul. 27, 2012, designating the United States and claiming priority from German application 10 2011 110 991.2, filed Aug. 18, 2011, and the entire content of both applications is incorporated herein by reference.

As the Zeiss info on SF doesn't mention anything about different gear speeds, and as none of the early reports remarked anything unsual, at the moment I don't believe the SF will be different from ordinary single speed focussers (except that it is smart of course ). But we'll see after the first reports from birdfair...

 

[dalat]

There were some rumours about Zeiss to introduce Conquest spotting scopes. Perhaps those will have the dual focus system of the DiaScope, and the discussed patent filing in the US is related to the launch of these scopes in the US, rather than to the SF binoculars. Like with the Terra, Zeiss may aim at the US market first with the lower priced scopes. Now that's a lots of perhapses and maybes

 

[Chosun Juan]

Its priced right in relation to EL SV, although all of us could wish they would both come down a bit or rather a lot :smoke:.

Whether its right for you CJ is another matter

Lee

Possibly .....
Although where is the price reduction driver from riding the experience curve? Some blatant profiteering going on here due to lack of competitive pressure, and it's not like the barriers to entry are that high .... The only high expense comes from the R&D cost and the incremental nature of improvements. It is bunkum to say that the scale is not there when halving the price would significantly boost the market and offer the same returns through production efficiencies.

Still, if the big players don't get their act together soon consumers will just be able to print their custom designed bins in a few years anyway .... :cat:

I can't deny that this 8x bin hasn't piqued my interest with the wide Fov's - I will have to hands-on to see if the ergo's work .... but that ungodly focuser puts me off and reduces what should be a great alrounder to a meandering middle distance bin -> the 10x would seem to make most sense (though at rather too many dollars for my liking) ..... what's the minimum order quantity for a custom designed bin from the OEM's again?! :smoke:


Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Hi Lee and Vespobuteo, thanks for posting the good links.

I see what you're talking about now. Complicated reading. But from what I can get of the content, and from the first paragraph, this seems to be an extension to the US of an older German patent on the DiaScope focus system (patented for both bins and scopes).



As the Zeiss info on SF doesn't mention anything about different gear speeds, and as none of the early reports remarked anything unsual, at the moment I don't believe the SF will be different from ordinary single speed focussers (except that it is smart of course ). But we'll see after the first reports from birdfair...

Florian, the SF will have a single speed = slow! (that's the coarse pitch thread), the fine pitch thread (for backing up in reverse once the focus mark is overshot on your very cooperative subjects - more than likely sedated! - will be even slower again) !!

I don't have the reference handy, but I am pretty sure that something along these lines (coarse primary direction /fine reversal pitch focuser) has been officially said by Zeiss somewhere ..... :cat:

This is a god unholy concept - I would not be surprised to see the focuser rotate of its own accord and green projectile vomit ensue from it at some stage !! :eek!:

Be careful out there folks 8-P


Chosun :gh:

 

[SteveTS]

what's the minimum order quantity for a custom designed bin from the OEM's again?! Chosun :gh:

If you ask you may be surprised what is possible.

I've just received some samples from Byfield Optics, a Queensland company who offer some very interesting polarised binoculars corporating a patent pending "integrated polarised optical array". These are selling hand-over-fist to their market.

There are small companies out there doing their own thing regardless of the alpha tier, who have nothing on these.

It might work for you. Let us know how you get on.

Best wishes,

 

[Troubador]

This is a god unholy concept - I would not be surprised to see the focuser rotate of its own accord and green projectile vomit ensue from it at some stage !! :eek!:
Chosun :gh:

No CJ if its green vomit its Swarovski puke and it will issue at a faster rate in one direction than in the opposite direction, but you will feel rough either way :eek!:

:-O

Lee

 

[ceasar]

I can't wait for the first "fast focus" complaint. That should be worth another 600 posts! At least the price is right.

Fast focus has been done before with the Nikon HG L/Premier series. Direct the complainers to the Nikon forum for comparisons.

My 8x32 LX L goes from close up to infinity in about 1/2 a turn (180º) of it's rather large focus wheel. Smooth too. No difficulty in either direction. It's still being made.

The SF won't get near those figures I'll bet.

Bob

 

[brocknroller]

Well, most of the 699 posts on this thread have been about the SF's focuser, so if nothing else, Zeiss has created a lot of "buzz" by naming the bin after its focusing system. The potential downside to that, however, is unless the focusing system delivers something unique and superior to other bins at its price point (well, there's only one other bin, the SV EL, at its price point, so let's revise that to "at the alpha level"), there could be a backlash. "It's a ruse!" or SF = Slow Focus, which has become Chosun's mantra.

OTOH, if the focusing systems turns out to match the Great Expectations (that is, the marketing), Yanks will be selling their second homes and Brits will be selling their caravans to buy one.

The time is nigh.

Brock