New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (1 Viewer)

[jan van daalen]

Jan:

I will go to you for an opinion as a seller, as Brock only adds his
opinion as someone without any experience, just a journalist with
a negative quest about Swarovski. An interesting search would be
his number of posts, in this direction. Swarovision, rolling ball,
and focuser. I am thinking it would be in the hundreds, in the past
4 years.

And I am not sure of his motive.

This is off topic, as it is a Zeiss thread.

Out of your customers of the Swarovision, how many have had issues
with the optics or the focuser ?


Jerry

Jerry,

Let's define issues.

Our main business is Safari Africa and there is a lot of dust (due to safari driving) and sand over there. One out of twenty comes back because of gritty focussing wheels because they are full of dust/sand. Some customers say it happened after they dropped it in the dust in Namibia and some say it came "out of the blue". All are repaired without any cost.

I think, new out of the box about 1% slippes through CQ and goes back.

The variation in turning strenght from left to right is due to the spring system. Once explained (by cut through models) to the customer, there is no problem (if there were any!).

Jan

 

[NDhunter]

Jerry,

Let's define issues.

Our main business is Safari Africa and there is a lot of dust (due to safari driving) and sand over there. One out of twenty comes back because of gritty focussing wheels because they are full of dust/sand. Some customers say it happened after they dropped it in the dust in Namibia and some say it came "out of the blue". All are repaired without any cost.

I think, new out of the box about 1% slippes through CQ and goes back.

The variation in turning strenght from left to right is due to the spring system. Once explained (by cut through models) to the customer, there is no problem (if there were any!).

Jan

Jan:
Thanks, how about rolling ball. Do you have many customers who
are affected and just cannot get used to the Swarovision ?

And what percentage would you estimate ? I have never found any
numbers on this.

Jerry

 

[Troubador]

Out of your customers of the Swarovision, how many have had issues
with the focuser ?

Jerry

Hi Jerry

Is it ok if I go triple off topic? Your question wasn't about Zeiss and was addressed to Jan and my answer isn't about Swarovision :eek!:

At the 2013 Bird Fair all the SLCs I tried had lovely smooth focusers, this year they were all horrible, gritty, stop-start affairs.

Go figure.

Lee

 

[jan van daalen]

Jan:
Thanks, how about rolling ball. Do you have many customers who
are affected and just cannot get used to the Swarovision ?

And what percentage would you estimate ? I have never found any
numbers on this.

Jerry

Jerry,

This will maybe sound weird to you, but 80% of my customers buy the SV just for the trip to Africa and will not use it much after that. These people live a different life that the common BFer and call their (rare) spare time quality time.
RB is no issue at all for them. They pay a lot of money for a air balloon trip over the desert of Namibia, fly to Oeganda to see the gorilla's, watch the Victoria Fall's, try to whitness the Great Migration in the Serengeti/MasaiMara and chill out the last days in Zanzibar.
RB??? WTF is RB. They just want the best bin available and untill the coming of the SF, that was the SV!!

For me personally RB is a no go for a SV. That's why I still use my old 7x30 SLC and/or my 8.5x42EL which is the follow up for my B&L Elite 8x42 (which I sold recently to a guy who asked me what my bin was en bought it).

The other 20% are hunters, birders and other nature lovers. It is my firm believe that Brock has managed to create a worldwide awareness for RB (I hope I write this in decent English). Some people (let's say 5% of that 20%) even ask for it. Most of them don't see it untill it's told and then you hear "Ahhhh, that's wat they mean!!!", and buy the bin.

To complete the story for the current SLC.
Lee is right. I use the old EL because of ita fenomenale balance and superb optics. The current SLC is better in optics but a drag in rubber housing combined with the focusser (the thick rubber housing is getting in the way for a smoothly operating focussing knob). I receive much more complaints about these items than for the SV, both out of the box and used. This is something Swaro is working on. At least that's my understanding, not that you would say that considering Lee's experience on the biggest Birdfair in Europe and his willing to share that with us.

Jan

 

[Steve260]

Hi Rich,

When might production arrive to fulfill SF pre-orders?

David

Today I received the following email from Eagle Optics:

"I’m writing to let you know that we just heard from Zeiss that the introduction of the new Victory SF has been delayed.
Zeiss is hoping and expecting that we will have these by late November.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we wanted to warn you.

We still have your backorder in place and unless we hear that you would like to make a change, we will contact you when the SF arrives."

Sounds like we will have a bit of an additional wait before the SF is officially launched and available...

Steve

 

[brocknroller]

David,

Thanks for the hands-on feedback! One of only 3 in the country? and no production units yet?? I think we can take it that the original deadlines have been well and truly missed! I hope nothing is "Crook in Musswellbrook" !

It is interesting that you report a "slightly blue" colour cast to the SF, none of our other roving reporters saw that, which just goes to show again, the variance in our eyes and environmental conditions. Less surprising that Brock has asserted that the FL has a "spike in the blue" - say whaa Bro?! 'whatchu talkin' 'bout Willisss ....' :hippy: The transmission charts for the FL, and HT too for that matter, show a gentle hilltop-type curve, peaking in the green yellow --- or smack bang in the middle of the 'daylight' value of 555nm. There is no "spike" in the blue whatsoever! For a real "spike" in the blue check out the Allbino's tr% curve for the Swarovski 10x42 SV - now that is a real "spike" on the blue end of the typical Swaro tabletop-type curve ...... and no-one ever complains of a 'blue cast' to that - just balanced "life-like" colours as Tim for one has reported earlier. :smoke:

I think it is well and truly time for Zeiss to unleash the light transmission curve for the SF ...... :cat:


Chosun :gh:

If I had 10 dollars for every time I posted an FL light graph, I'd be able to buy an SF! How could you have missed all those graphs and accompanying discussions?

All the FLs rise higher on the blue side and fall sharply on the red side of the spectrum. Something to do with low light viewing as I recall.

Check out allbinos graphs. Comes up in the blue to a small peak that either dips a little afterward or continues to rise until the camel's hump in the green-yellow and then turns so steep in the red that even Franz Klammer would have had trouble negotiating that slope!

Go Franz, Go

Hopefully, the SF has a flatter transmission spectrum, but as David said we can't "extrapolate" from one tester's review, particularly since he compared the SF to an EII, which dips in the blue and rises in the red.

Nikon_8x30E_II.html

Carl_Zeiss_Victory_8x56_T*_FL

Carl_Zeiss_Victory_8x42_T*_FL.html

Carl_Zeiss_Victory_8x32_T*_FL.html

Brock

 

[Chosun Juan]

If I had 10 dollars for every time I posted an FL light graph, I'd be able to buy an SF! How could you have missed all those graphs and accompanying discussions?

All the FLs rise higher on the blue side and fall sharply on the red side of the spectrum. Something to do with low light viewing as I recall.

Check out allbinos graphs. Comes up in the blue to a small peak that either dips a little afterward or continues to rise until the camel's hump in the green-yellow and then turns so steep in the red that even Franz Klammer would have had trouble negotiating that slope!

Go Franz, Go

Hopefully, the SF has a flatter transmission spectrum, but as David said we can't "extrapolate" from one tester's review, particularly since he compared the SF to an EII, which dips in the blue and rises in the red.

Nikon_8x30E_II.html

Carl_Zeiss_Victory_8x56_T*_FL

Carl_Zeiss_Victory_8x42_T*_FL.html

Carl_Zeiss_Victory_8x32_T*_FL.html

Brock

Brock,

If only you had 10 cents for every word you've written here, you'd have an SF, an SV, as well as an EDG, and HT and SLC to boot, AND enough small change for several 'Big Years' ! :eek!: :king:

How could You have missed it?! (well, those that know you here will say quite easily!
The reason that curves rise sharply in the blue is that below about 380nm is getting a bit dodgy for near, and UV light - and so it is deliberately excluded. Apart from that, it's a gentle hill up until the daylight peak. If you did your homework, you'd know that by 640nm she's all over red rover for seeing the red part of the spectrum as the purjinke effect kicks in. Further, if you have a look at the values for the blue and red you will see that they are level - meaning a neutral colour rendition. Those curves growing in the red a la' Nikon, Leica, Steiner, etc, are wonderful for those such as yourself with a penchant for the 'rose-coloured' view of the world, seeing red grosbeaks in the fall leaves, pulling hiding lions out of the tall savannah grasslands, or for that once in a lifetime trip to Mars! IMHO :cat:

If you really want to see a "spike" in the blue - as I said earlier, check out the Swarovski 10x42 SV: http://www.allbinos.com/223-binoculars_review-Swarovski_EL_10x42_Swarovision.html
Explain that one!
While you're at it - explain the Zeiss 8x32 FL's 94.6% peak transmission number, given its S-P prism construction and lack of HT glass!

It's back to school for you buddy! :smoke:

I'm just glad that Zeiss has raised the transmission bar. Folks will say that a few % is hard to detect but add a few of those iterative improvements and all of a sudden you're 10% better off, which will be instantly visibly recognizable. Besides that, as ronh so eloquently put it, each fraction of a percentage gain in transmission, brings a corresponding drop in the amount of reflected lost light bouncing around inside the bin degrading the image. So far from inconsequential, these small transmission gains are actually vitally important. :brains:

I look forward to Swaro's response, and to comparing them both side by side in person. Given my eyes each have a different colour bias, ie. their own blue/red colour cast, I'll be well happy with a balanced, neutral transmission curve as high as she'll go!

If production SF units are going to be delayed until November or later, then it is high time for an officially 'leaked' light transmission curve for the SF to feed the masses! :eat:


Chosun :gh:

 

[brocknroller]

Brock,

If only you had 10 cents for every word you've written here, you'd have an SF, an SV, as well as an EDG, and HT and SLC to boot, AND enough small change for several 'Big Years' ! :eek!: :king:

How could You have missed it?! (well, those that know you here will say quite easily!
The reason that curves rise sharply in the blue is that below about 380nm is getting a bit dodgy for near, and UV light - and so it is deliberately excluded. Apart from that, it's a gentle hill up until the daylight peak. If you did your homework, you'd know that by 640nm she's all over red rover for seeing the red part of the spectrum as the purjinke effect kicks in. Further, if you have a look at the values for the blue and red you will see that they are level - meaning a neutral colour rendition. Those curves growing in the red a la' Nikon, Leica, Steiner, etc, are wonderful for those such as yourself with a penchant for the 'rose-coloured' view of the world, seeing red grosbeaks in the fall leaves, pulling hiding lions out of the tall savannah grasslands, or for that once in a lifetime trip to Mars! IMHO :cat:

If you really want to see a "spike" in the blue - as I said earlier, check out the Swarovski 10x42 SV: http://www.allbinos.com/223-binoculars_review-Swarovski_EL_10x42_Swarovision.html
Explain that one!
While you're at it - explain the Zeiss 8x32 FL's 94.6% peak transmission number, given its S-P prism construction and lack of HT glass!

It's back to school for you buddy! :smoke:

I'm just glad that Zeiss has raised the transmission bar. Folks will say that a few % is hard to detect but add a few of those iterative improvements and all of a sudden you're 10% better off, which will be instantly visibly recognizable. Besides that, as ronh so eloquently put it, each fraction of a percentage gain in transmission, brings a corresponding drop in the amount of reflected lost light bouncing around inside the bin degrading the image. So far from inconsequential, these small transmission gains are actually vitally important. :brains:

I look forward to Swaro's response, and to comparing them both side by side in person. Given my eyes each have a different colour bias, ie. their own blue/red colour cast, I'll be well happy with a balanced, neutral transmission curve as high as she'll go!

If production SF units are going to be delayed until November or later, then it is high time for an officially 'leaked' light transmission curve for the SF to feed the masses! :eat:


Chosun :gh:

A case of the pot calling the kettle blue if ever there was one! I think we're pretty closely matched in word counts, but if had a penny for every smilie you've posted, I could buy an SF! I hereby dub you, Chosun, Queen of Smiles, or for short, Smilie Queen. :gh:

<B>

 

[Troubador]

While you're at it - explain the Zeiss 8x32 FL's 94.6% peak transmission number, given its S-P prism construction and lack of HT glass!

Chosun :gh:

Chosun

I would also like an explanation of this extraordinary figure. It does make me wonder a bit about the methods used to measure transmission.

Lee

 

[Sagittarius]

I wonder why the fact that Zeiss uses Schmidt–Pechan prisms in the SF has not been mentioned more in this or other threads ?

I switched from Swarovski to Zeiss last year because I believed the combination of the HT glass and Abbe-Konig prisms made for an overall superior binocular vs the Swarovski SV with Schmidt–Pechan prisms.

In light gathering, there is no doubt which is superior but the SF seems to have won people over with its wide field of view and superior balance.

Zeiss, themselves, have long extolled the use of and benefits of Abbe-Konig prisms in their binoculars while claiming Schmidt Pechan were overall inferior.

I like the SF binocular but would not consider one unless they produce a 12x50 model to compete with Swarovski.
There's no way I want two 10x42 binoculars, despite whether one has superior brightness or a wider field of view.

The binocular I still covet most of all is a 15x54 HT. |8)|

 

[Troubador]

I wonder why the fact that Zeiss uses Schmidt–Pechan prisms in the SF has not been mentioned more in this or other threads ?

|

I believe SP prisms were selected for SF to help with weight control and also to make room for the field flattener.

And it makes the choice between HT and SF a 'broader' one and by that I mean there is more distinction between them.

Lee

 

[Sagittarius]

I believe SP prisms were selected for SF to help with weight control and also to make room for the field flattener.

And it makes the choice between HT and SF a 'broader' one and by that I mean there is more distinction between them.

Lee

Thanks, Lee.
I suppose, no binocular can have the best of everything. |=)|
Too bad, we can't have light weight, better balance, high light transmission, flat fields and a large field of view combined.
Guess the only thing we can do is buy both an HT and an SF. :t:

 

[binomania]

Hi from Italy. I will try to explain my impression in my poor english. I've published a short preview of these binoculars on my website, some days ago. By the way i've spent, during the last two weeks, some hour with the Victory SF and my 8.5x42 .
In the last year i've owned two specimen of Swarovision 8.5x42: the first without RB effect (perfect for watch the stars) and the second one with a interesting presence of distorsion that i prefer for panning during the diurnal observation.
I summarize for point what i've seen.
1) The field of view. I own also a Nikon E II because i love big AFOV and when i spent some time with Zeiss SF, my Swarovision s 8.5x42 seems to show a" keyhole"
2)I find more natural the position of his focus Knob (like Zeiss HT)
3) Concerning the tonality of colour, I and my friends have some problems. In my opinion is quite neutral but slightly more yellow than my SWAROVISION. The problem is that the Swarovision of a friends of mine is more yellow than mine. Anyway there is a big difference respect the cold tonality of FL series.
4) Observing bird of pray, Zeiss SF show less internal reflections respect my Swarovision
5) I like the open hinge but I have a little 'doubts about the rubber. It seems a little thin (the gustibus...)
6) I can notice some lateral chromatic aberration and, sometimes, also in the center of the field. I'm not very surprised, because the only binoculars, with roof prism, that does not show in the center, was my old Kowa Genesis 8.5x44
7)I've seen a small "absam ring" infact the images become soft to about 80 percent of the field of view. Then the image provided improve.
8) Concerning the panning,I confess you do not have any particular problems with this characteristic. However, I prefer my last Swarovision 8.5x42, but I have to do more testing because Zeiss SF has less magnification but more FOV.
9) I prefer the mechanic of Zeiss focus knob,
I would like to be more precise, but my English makes me look like a 6 year old boy
I hope you have the patience to wait for my review
Here you can find a small preview and some images. http://www.binomania.it/preview-zeiss-victory-sf-8x42/
Best Regards from Italy

 

[ticl2184]

Thanks for that Piergiovanni.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see the Absam ring in the SF's.

Cheers Tim

 

[Troubador]

Hi from Italy. I will try to explain my impression in my poor english. I've published a short preview of these binoculars on my website, some days ago. By the way i've spent, during the last two weeks, some hour with the Victory SF and my 8.5x42 .
In the last year i've owned two specimen of Swarovision 8.5x42: the first without RB effect (perfect for watch the stars) and the second one with a interesting presence of distorsion that i prefer for panning during the diurnal observation.
I summarize for point what i've seen.
1) The field of view. I own also a Nikon E II because i love big AFOV and when i spent some time with Zeiss SF, my Swarovision s 8.5x42 seems to show a" keyhole"
2)I find more natural the position of his focus Knob (like Zeiss HT)
3) Concerning the tonality of colour, I and my friends have some problems. In my opinion is quite neutral but slightly more yellow than my SWAROVISION. The problem is that the Swarovision of a friends of mine is more yellow than mine. Anyway there is a big difference respect the cold tonality of FL series.
4) Observing bird of pray, Zeiss SF show less internal reflections respect my Swarovision
5) I like the open hinge but I have a little 'doubts about the rubber. It seems a little thin (the gustibus...)
6) I can notice some lateral chromatic aberration and, sometimes, also in the center of the field. I'm not very surprised, because the only binoculars, with roof prism, that does not show in the center, was my old Kowa Genesis 8.5x44
7)I've seen a small "absam ring" infact the images become soft to about 80 percent of the field of view. Then the image provided improve.
8) Concerning the panning,I confess you do not have any particular problems with this characteristic. However, I prefer my last Swarovision 8.5x42, but I have to do more testing because Zeiss SF has less magnification but more FOV.
9) I prefer the mechanic of Zeiss focus knob,
I would like to be more precise, but my English makes me look like a 6 year old boy
I hope you have the patience to wait for my review
Here you can find a small preview and some images. http://www.binomania.it/preview-zeiss-victory-sf-8x42/
Best Regards from Italy

Multo bene, Grazie

Ciao bello

= my 6 years old Italian :-O

Lee

 

[Chosun Juan]

Hi from Italy. I will try to explain my impression in my poor english. I've published a short preview of these binoculars on my website, some days ago. By the way i've spent, during the last two weeks, some hour with the Victory SF and my 8.5x42 .
In the last year i've owned two specimen of Swarovision 8.5x42: the first without RB effect (perfect for watch the stars) and the second one with a interesting presence of distorsion that i prefer for panning during the diurnal observation.
I summarize for point what i've seen.
1) The field of view. I own also a Nikon E II because i love big AFOV and when i spent some time with Zeiss SF, my Swarovision s 8.5x42 seems to show a" keyhole"
2)I find more natural the position of his focus Knob (like Zeiss HT)
3) Concerning the tonality of colour, I and my friends have some problems. In my opinion is quite neutral but slightly more yellow than my SWAROVISION. The problem is that the Swarovision of a friends of mine is more yellow than mine. Anyway there is a big difference respect the cold tonality of FL series.
4) Observing bird of pray, Zeiss SF show less internal reflections respect my Swarovision
5) I like the open hinge but I have a little 'doubts about the rubber. It seems a little thin (the gustibus...)
6) I can notice some lateral chromatic aberration and, sometimes, also in the center of the field. I'm not very surprised, because the only binoculars, with roof prism, that does not show in the center, was my old Kowa Genesis 8.5x44
7)I've seen a small "absam ring" infact the images become soft to about 80 percent of the field of view. Then the image provided improve.
8) Concerning the panning,I confess you do not have any particular problems with this characteristic. However, I prefer my last Swarovision 8.5x42, but I have to do more testing because Zeiss SF has less magnification but more FOV.
9) I prefer the mechanic of Zeiss focus knob,
I would like to be more precise, but my English makes me look like a 6 year old boy
I hope you have the patience to wait for my review
Here you can find a small preview and some images. http://www.binomania.it/preview-zeiss-victory-sf-8x42/
Best Regards from Italy

Hi Pier, thanks for your preview and impressions. :t:

Do not worry about your English - It's a million times better than my (or most here's) Italian (or any other non-English language for that matter) ! :brains: ||

Good to hear positive feedback on the glare control.

Less encouraging to hear of readily detectable zones of softness in the image .....

We will have to stay tuned for more reports on the production units' focusers and the rubber armoring ..... :cat:
:t:


Chosun :gh:

 

[mooreorless]

"7)I've seen a small "absam ring" infact the images become soft to about 80 percent of the field of view. Then the image provided improve. "

Oh no, now we will here about this from someone else on here forever. At least no Astigmatism seen so far.

Thanks for your thoughts Piergiovanni!

 

[Troubador]

Less encouraging to hear of readily detectable zones of softness in the image

Chosun :gh:

CJ

Naughty girl, don't put words into the reviewer's mouth. Our good friend didn't say whether the zone of softness that he perceived was readily detectable or detectable with difficulty, or whether it was or was not perceptible in normal viewing. Could be either or could be due to too much Grappa, or not enough :-O

Lee

 

[Chosun Juan]

Lee, I just meant that it was visible with the trusty ol' MarkI eyeball |8.| ..... Pier, is no OAP, and likely to have better focus accommodation than many on here ..... that's "readily" and disappointing enough .....

Interesting that you didn't report it on your viewing - perhaps you've been eating your carrots lately, or taking those little blue 'Z' pills to colour the view?!

This is more than one report now of the "Wetzlar Wobble" .... cue Brock ...... o


Chosun :gh:

 

[binomania]

Hi to all, i confirm you that the " small absam ring" is not visibile during the normal vision. I had to show it to my friends placing it on a tripod. Do not worry and enjoy the binoculars. Sometimes we are too fixated in judging our optical instrument and we lose the pleasure of using them in the midst of nature. In my review you'll also find the questions I posed to the Zeiss engineer..including "the absam ring"
Ciao!