Nikon (Premier?) 8x42 replaced (1 Viewer)

[getset]

I sent my Nikon 8x42 binoculars (see photo) in to Nikon for what I thought was going to be a routine cleaning and servicing. They needed cleaning on the outside (lenses) and the hinge needed to be tightened, but I didn't think they needed anything further than that. I wanted them to "check" the alignment, but I really didn't think they needed alignment or anything major.

As it turns out, instead of returning my binoculars, they sent a pair of Monarch HG 8x42 binoculars to replace them.

Before I sent them, I spoke to several Nikon service reps and one of them did say they might replace them, so be sure to write a note "that you do not want them replaced" --- which I did by saying "Please do not replace these binoculars with another model." I even wrote "- SENTIMENTAL VALUE -".

I am not happy they replaced them. They were (are) a great pair of binoculars --- the focus was butter smooth, they never fogged up on the inside, the diopter locked in place (didn't move), the view was excellent (color, contrast, etc.), and the alignment seemed great. The twist-up eye cups did tend to move so I placed a couple o-rings under them to fix them for my needed eye relief (as you can see in the photo).

I sent them in for a similar servicing in April, 2015 and they came back in great shape, so i really wasn't expecting anything different to happen this time.

I purchased them in 2004, but I just now noticed that I mistakenly wrote on the Service Request Form that I had purchased them in 1994, (why I said that I have no idea --- just wasn't thinking). That makes me wonder if they thought they were purchased so long ago, that a model HG 8x42 would be a great improvement and that I would be happy to receive a newer pair with "better" optics.... or maybe they accidentally ruined them when they were trying to repair them ..... or maybe they were damaged in shipping .... or maybe _______________ or maybe _____________ etc. etc. etc.

I am planning on calling them tomorrow, but not sure if that will do any good.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Dennis

PS: Anyone know what model these are?

 

[NDhunter]

Your model is the original LX or in some countries called the HG. After this they were named the LX L and HG l, as
they lightened the chassis significantly, and switched from leaded glass to eco-glass. The last iteration of this model
is simply called the Premier.
I am with you, I would want the original back. The new Monarch HG is better but the old one is special.
Go back on the Nikon subforum and search some years back for much has been written on the changes.
Also the website "Better view Desired", has a nice review of the model.
Jerry

 

[Scott98]

Dennis - really sorry about your loss! That is terrible, I just finished a 12-year run of using these binoculars, I loved them. Looks like yours are in nice shape too. I hope you're able to talk to someone at Nikon USA and maybe get them back.

Now, looking at the positive side of things. Brand-new Monarch HG 8x42's are going to be worth more than the Premier LXL's on the used market. At least a few hundred dollars more. If you can't get the LXL back, there is another course of action. You could sell the HG's and order a new pair of 8x42 Nikon EDG from Japan. I think the current price is around $1500. The EDG are the successor to the LXL, the same smooth focuser and flat field, but the field is wider, the glass and coatings are improved as well. The eyecups, body, and rubber armor are better too.

I just upgraded from my 8x42 LXL to 7x42 EDG and I'm really happy with them. I think they're a lot better than the Monarch HG, especially the focuser. You can order the EDG from Kyoie Osaka in Japan and have them within a week for $50 shipping cost. Nikon USA chose not to sell these, but they are as good as any binocular on the market today IMO.

 

[getset]

Your model is the original LX or in some countries called the HG. After this they were named the LX L and HG l, as
they lightened the chassis significantly, and switched from leaded glass to eco-glass. The last iteration of this model
is simply called the Premier.
I am with you, I would want the original back. The new Monarch HG is better but the old one is special.
Go back on the Nikon subforum and search some years back for much has been written on the changes.
Also the website "Better view Desired", has a nice review of the model.
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Thank you for your input.

I called Nikon back this morning and was able to talk to Timothy W. in Customer Service and he was very understanding and helpful.

He is checking into what happened to them and is going to get back to me.

I'll post a message when I find out more.

I remember reading the "Better View Desired" reviews of the different models of binoculars and spotting scopes - it was great. Does "Better View Desired" still have a website? I was thinking it was on Cloudy Nights. It's too bad someone didn't keep the original website intact. It seems to be missing the graphical images and/or photos scattered throughout the reviews. (Unless, I am the only one who can't see them?) It seems like the images and photos would be really helpful to clarify what he is talking about in his reviews.

I was thinking that my binoculars had a review on the website and were referred to as a "BVD Reference Set", but I can't seem to find it.

Anyway, they were "My" "Reference Set" because I always compared any other binocular to them. I have to admit, it would have been nice if they had a wider FOV, but other than that, they were pretty great.

 

[getset]

Dennis - really sorry about your loss! That is terrible, I just finished a 12-year run of using these binoculars, I loved them. Looks like yours are in nice shape too. I hope you're able to talk to someone at Nikon USA and maybe get them back.

Now, looking at the positive side of things. Brand-new Monarch HG 8x42's are going to be worth more than the Premier LXL's on the used market. At least a few hundred dollars more. If you can't get the LXL back, there is another course of action. You could sell the HG's and order a new pair of 8x42 Nikon EDG from Japan. I think the current price is around $1500. The EDG are the successor to the LXL, the same smooth focuser and flat field, but the field is wider, the glass and coatings are improved as well. The eyecups, body, and rubber armor are better too.

I just upgraded from my 8x42 LXL to 7x42 EDG and I'm really happy with them. I think they're a lot better than the Monarch HG, especially the focuser. You can order the EDG from Kyoie Osaka in Japan and have them within a week for $50 shipping cost. Nikon USA chose not to sell these, but they are as good as any binocular on the market today IMO.

Hi Scott,

I really appreciate your reply.

IF I can't get them back, yes, I will have to consider my other options.

That is really interesting about getting the Nikon EDG.

Maybe, I did not understand him correctly, but it seems like Timothy W. (Nikon Customer Support) said that Nikon has discontinued the EDG and combined the tech from the EDG and older HG into what they are calling the Monarch HG.

I haven't even unboxed the HGs to try them out yet, and not really sure if I will try them out. I have always had a desire to get a Nikon 8x32 SE or a Zeiss Victory 8x56 T*FL, so I may lean on trading for a mint or "like new" version of one of those.... perhaps ... we'll see.

 

[Pinewood]

Hello Denis,

I doubt that your mistake on the date of purchase made any difference. Nikon USA would know the binocular's age and its specific model from the serial number.

Nikon USA does not seem to keep parts for discontinued models for long or perhaps just does not care to service discontinued models for long. Fiske on Cloudynights had difficulties with one of the SE Porro models; it was in need of an eyepiece lens component. Without the part, even an independent optical technician could not help.

Stay safe,
Arthur

 

[Scott98]

Maybe, I did not understand him correctly, but it seems like Timothy W. (Nikon Customer Support) said that Nikon has discontinued the EDG and combined the tech from the EDG and older HG into what they are calling the Monarch HG.

That is the official story for the USA, however, it's completely false. (which is disturbing btw!) Nikon USA chose to stop importing the EDG from Nikon Japan, the 7x, 8x and 10x42 models are in current production in Japan and have been updated at least once since 2012. They're still sold in Europe too. Nikon USA did the same thing with the 8x30 and 10x35 E2's, which are no longer offered in the US.

I haven't even unboxed the HGs to try them out yet, and not really sure if I will try them out. I have always had a desire to get a Nikon 8x32 SE or a Zeiss Victory 8x56 T*FL, so I may lean on trading for a mint or "like new" version of one of those.... perhaps ... we'll see.

Those are great binos, might take a while to find them, they're both pretty rare. There is ad in the classified for brand new Nikon 8x30 E2's, a nice alternative to used 8x32 SE's. The Monarch 8x42 HG's aren't bad either, nice optics and lightweight, 3 ounces lighter than the LXL's and EDG. I thought the quality of the body and focuser were better with EDG, but the optics seemed good to me.

You wonder, what was Nikon thinking? Someone could have cleaned the LXL and adjusted the hinge tension in an hour, two at most, versus the production cost of the Monarchs, that must be a lot more?

 

[Scott98]

PS....you can find some of the Better View Desired content here:

All Reviews | Better View Desired

 

[Conndomat]

They're still sold in Europe too.

Not in Germany, even at Nikon Germany they have to be imported to order.

I'm really not sure if the EDG are only made in very small numbers or if there are only stocks left?!

Andreas

 

[dries1]

The issue with the SE is way overblown, it is still an excellent glass. By the way I was the one who actually found the problem before fiske.
Dennis,
If Nikon cannot solve the problem, then is no harm of trying the Monarch HGs, they are an excellent glass and I could easily use them as a stand alone glass. Scott98 has some good suggestions.

 

[Scott98]

Not in Germany, even at Nikon Germany they have to be imported to order.

I'm really not sure if the EDG are only made in very small numbers or if there are only stocks left?!

Andreas

So only the UK? Not all of Europe. that is weird. You could be right, the 42mm EDG are featured prominently in the 2022 Nikon Japan Sport Optics catalog, like the E2's, I assumed they're both in production, but who knows? My 10x42 EDG showed up minty fresh from Kyoie, it's hard to believe they're old stock.

The language barrier with Japan makes everything so mysterious. There's no way to ask the people in Japan what they're doing these days. Maybe they all switched to buying Monarch HG's. We'll never know. Could ask Kyoie...I noticed the EDG went on sale at Kyoei around December before the holiday, then the price went back up and stayed there.

It's been so long since they stopped selling them in the US, it's hard to believe it's all a supply of old-stock ones since then. The green coatings look just like the coatings on the WX. I think someone posted here that a European dealer told them EDG was still in production?

 

[Conndomat]

So only the UK? Not all of Europe. that is weird. You could be right, the 42mm EDG are featured prominently in the 2022 Nikon Japan Sport Optics catalog, like the E2's, I assumed they're both in production, but who knows? My 10x42 EDG showed up minty fresh from Kyoie, it's hard to believe they're old stock.

The language barrier with Japan makes everything so mysterious. There's no way to just ask the people in Japan what they're doing these days. Maybe they all switched to buying Monarch HG's. We'll never know. Could ask Kyoie...I noticed the EDG went on sale at Kyoei around December before the holiday, then the price went back up and stayed there. It's been so long since they stopped selling them in the US, it's hard to believe it's all a supply of old-stock ones since then. I think someone posted here than a European dealer told them EDG was still in production?

I don't know it!
At least here in Germany, a few dealers still offer the EDG, but these have to be ordered from Japan, and Nikon Germany does not have an EDG in stock as of today.

Maybe Nikon only builds the EDG in small margins, the question is is it worth it and how long will the EDG be built?
It will deter many potential buyers when the glasses are then sent to Japan for repairs.
And, many people buy such expensive binoculars for more than 10 years (guarantee period), does Nikon then still have spare parts?
Too many question marks for me.

Andreas

 

[getset]

Hello Denis,

I doubt that your mistake on the date of purchase made any difference. Nikon USA would know the binocular's age and its specific model from the serial number.

Nikon USA does not seem to keep parts for discontinued models for long or perhaps just does not care to service discontinued models for long. Fiske on Cloudynights had difficulties with one of the SE Porro models; it was in need of an eyepiece lens component. Without the part, even an independent optical technician could not help.

Stay safe,
Arthur

Hi Arthur,

Thanks for your input.

Yes, I think you are probably right --- the purchase date probably had nothing to do with it.

It just kinda sucks because when I sent them in, in 2015, they came back nice and clean and in good shape, but this time they sent me a different model.

I wonder if there was a change between 2015 and 2023 in the policy at the Nikon Service Center, .... like a change in the Manager position, or maybe they just don't have the employees that they used to have and need to streamline their repairs in the most "economical" way. Maybe the previous manager was an old timer with lots of respect for doing things for customer satisfaction, but the new generation may have a new way of doing things.... lots of speculation on my part.

It seems like the Service Center location has changed too in the mean time, previously on Wilshire Blvd in Los Angeles and now in Signal Hill, CA. I thought I read somewhere that you can take them in and drop them off at the Service Center. If I lived near there I would have been tempted to personally take them in and maybe that would have helped.

 

[getset]

The issue with the SE is way overblown, it is still an excellent glass. By the way I was the one who actually found the problem before fiske.
Dennis,
If Nikon cannot solve the problem, then is no harm of trying the Monarch HGs, they are an excellent glass and I could easily use them as a stand alone glass. Scott98 has some good suggestions.

Hi Andy,

Thank you for your reply.

The thing about getting a different binoculars is that I don't know what I am going to be getting.... handling, optically, etc.

With my Nikon LX binoculars I know what I had.... buttery smooth focus, etc.

My brother had an 8x32 SE and we compared them one day and they seemed to be very comparable (optically at least) to my LXes.

I have not heard back yet about my binoculars, but what a sad state of affairs this country has arrived at, when you take a perfectly good binocular and throw them in the trash. Suddarth or any of the optical repair shops would be glad (maybe I am mistaken?) to take them off their hands for parts.....what a crazy world.

Dennis

 

[tenex]

Was the original LX a flat field design, or if not, at what point in the model sequence did it become one? (imagining what replacing LX with EDG would be like)

 

[getset]

Hi tenex,

Was the original LX a flat field design, or if not, at what point in the model sequence did it become one? (imagining what replacing LX with EDG would be like)

I believe the LX are of a flat field design.
Other members here can give you a better answer as to the model sequence.
I am still confused about the naming sequence.
It seems especially confusing when the manufacturer calls a model by one name in the United States, but by another name in another country.
It sounds like my bins above were called LX in the United States, but were called HG in other countries.
Another member will hopefully correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like the sequence was something like the original LX (HG in other countries?), then the LX L (lighter) or HG L (in other countries), then the Premier models.

I am not sure how the "Venturer" model name fits into all this. Are mine considered Venturer LX? But, from photos I have seen, it looks like the Venturer were a lot boxier looking and were a predecessor to my LX, but I don't know that for a fact.

What did you mean by saying... "(imagining what replacing LX with EDG would be like)"?

But yes, I would like to imagine if the EDG are still being made in Japan (and they are apparently, as per Scott above) and they have the similarities to my old LXes (with buttery smooth focus, etc.) - and especially, with a better FOV, - that would seem like a pretty good competitor to the alphas from Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss .... imo.

I do have to admit, that after I compared my brother's Nikon SEs, to my LXes, it seemed like they were a pretty good match optically speaking. So, I would like to get a pair of SEs to see if I can tell the difference in the flat field vs porro view, and which view I would like better. Also, to see how they handle, how they fit my eyes, etc.. They would be a lot lighter than my LXes, too.

Dennis

 

[getset]

Well, the Nikon repair shop apparently found my old binoculars.

So, I have the new HGs all boxed up (with a prepaid shipping label that Customer Support emailed to me), and ready to go out (via UPS).

After they get the HGs, they will return my LXes....at least that is the plan at this point.

What I will do with my old LXes is another consideration. Right now I am considering sending them to Suddarth.

Thank you to everyone for your responses and giving me some options to consider.

Dennis

 

[brocknroller]

Hi Scott,

I really appreciate your reply.

IF I can't get them back, yes, I will have to consider my other options.

That is really interesting about getting the Nikon EDG.

Maybe, I did not understand him correctly, but it seems like Timothy W. (Nikon Customer Support) said that Nikon has discontinued the EDG and combined the tech from the EDG and older HG into what they are calling the Monarch HG.

I haven't even unboxed the HGs to try them out yet, and not really sure if I will try them out. I have always had a desire to get a Nikon 8x32 SE or a Zeiss Victory 8x56 T*FL, so I may lean on trading for a mint or "like new" version of one of those.... perhaps ... we'll see.

The Monarch HGs are the replacements for the Nikon LX, which were called HG in Europe and also marked on the Venturer LX boxes). I had the 8x42 and 10x42 models. Great optics but not enough pincushion for my eyes, so it caused "rolling ball" while panning. Ditto for the 42mm MHGs, which again reinforces that they were the replacements for the LX/LXL, not the EDG.

The 42mm EDG's have more pincushion, particularly the 8x42, to prevent "rolling ball." DIfferent animal than the MHG (better for me). The 8x42 LX was heavy, so was the 10x42. I bought the 10x42 LXL, because it was lighter and because I read rumors on BF or CN that that Nikon added more pincushion in the LXL, but after panning with them, I found out they did not, still too much AMD. Same rumor happened with later made SVs, which also proved to be false.

Although lighter, the LXL had other issues that the LX version did not. First, the armoring wasn't as hard and robust as the originals and though I bought the 10x42 LXL new, the soft brown (not black) armoring showed wear after using them for only two weeks! The second factor was the LXL with lead-free glass showed more CA than the lead glass version (I posted a study done with mircroscopes that showed microscopes that had lead glass showed less CA than those with lead-free glass, and they proved that with photos. But that was Nikon's first attempt at making lead-free glass and trying to find suitable substitutes for the missing lead and arsenic.

The third difference was the LXL's didn't have as "true to life" color rendition as the lead glass LX. Not sure how much the lead-free glass had to do with that, Nikon might have changed the AR coatings, which it does without announcing it.

Nikon's latest lead-free glass used in the 2017-present 8x and 10x E2s shows much less CA than the LXL and the AR coatings have the best color rendition I've seen other than the 42mm EDG, which is similar.

Unless the LX needs new parts, Nikon should be able to repair them. I think they send out replacements since it's probably cheaper than the cost of labor. It's a shame. But if you look in the warranty, it says that Nikon will repair or replace the bins, so it's their choice.

Regardless, you can't replace "sentimental value," so if the Nikon LX is your friend, get your firend back and send him to Corey Suddarth for cleaning and collimation. And then send Nikon the bill.

Brock

 

[Scott98]

That's great news they're coming back! I wonder what happens to them otherwise - hopefully not the trash bin! I had the 8x42 LXL, maybe different than the LX, but the EDG is very similar, and both quite different from the MHGs. The EDG body and in particular the focuser is very similar to LXL, whereas the HG's have a totally different build, and IMO, the focuser isn't as good.

The 8x42 LXL had the same flat field as my 7x42 EDG. The improvement I see in the EDG is slightly sharper and better contrast, and complete elimination of false color. The FOV got a little wider in EDG, 7 degrees in the 8x42 expanding to 7.7 degrees. Also the body is more refined, the rubber is thinner, the bridge is higher and smaller making the EDG easier to hold.

PS...it's pretty easy to clean the outside of these sealed bino's lenses with some cleaning pads and denatured alcohol. I think you can adjust the focuser tension with a spanner wrench. I might try doing those things myself before paying someone $200 to do it.

 

[dries1]

The LX L and the Premier are excellent to my eyes, but then again I don't have a problem with CA and rolling bowl, and can adapt to binocular armor.