Nikon SE Fungus? (1 Viewer)

[ukorim]

I noticed today what appears to be an oil or fungus contamination in a couple of places on the inside of the objective lens (one side only).
These 10x42 SE were purchased in 2011 from Clifton Cameras and have the serial number 8700.
I have attached a photo and I'm hoping someone may be able to tell me what it is (the containment is top right).

The spooky thing is that I purchased some 10x42 SE in 2007 from ebay and these had a similar problem. I returned them to the seller who confirmed they were only 3 months old. Now for the spooky part - I just looked at some old images that I sent the seller and noticed the serial number of these was 8704!
(4 years older than mine and only 4 digits apart).

 

[dries1]

So the full serial No. is 008704. Any porro or roof glass should be stored in a warm dry environment, (low humidity) to prevent fungus growth. These should be fairly easy to clean by a good opticalman, if that is what it is, and not issues with the coatings.

Regards,

Andy W.

 

[NDhunter]

I think you should put away your magnifying glass, that is not anything to be bothered with. I think that is just a bit of lens edge coating
thing going on.

True fungus is a growing spider web way into a lens that you would notice. The SE is not sealed or N filled, and I have experience with several over the years.

I have not found any fungus in an unsealed porro, but have found it inside a newer alpha waterproof binocular, a Swaro. 8.5x42 SV. So go figure that one out.

Jerry

 

[ukorim]

They're always stored in an airtight Peli case at room temperature so never exposed to any damp. It does have a spider web look to and appears in a couple of places and you certainly don't need a magnifying glass to see it The other objective is completely clear.

I'm not really too bothered about it and it certainly doesn't affect the performance but it will affect resale if I decide to part with them. I still have a couple of years of the original Nikon 10 year warranty left (although the last 5 years are parts only), so I could potentially get Nikon to take a look at it.

 

[Binastro]

Dear ukorim,
This is the beginnings of fungus, I think, that is caused possibly by moisture getting past the edge of the objective.
Sometimes it seeps into the balsam that is between the two elements.
Maybe here it is the back surface of the rear element.
It can also affect the blackening at the edge of the objective.
In top quality professional movie lenses this blackening is specific to the glass type, but I doubt that this is the case with a consumer binocular.

At the moment the optical effect will be near zero if it only affects the extreme edge.

It may be that storage in a good environment will slow any growth to years.

Whether Nikon has spare objectives, I don't know, but if so they would probably change them at a price.

Nothing lasts forever, although glass stained windows can last for centuries.

The inner glass element is likely softer than the front glass element.

So I think that the choice is to see if it spreads over, say a year, and just enjoy using the binocular, or returning the binocular to Nikon for a quote.

It also depends on whether other binoculars are available for use while the Nikon is away.

Regards,
B.

P.S.
In the U.K. optics should be stored above 13C and the humidity should be less than 60%. 40% or less is better.
Seaside locations are worse, as wet and salty.
I am always wary of optics from seaside places.
Storing optics in unheated garages is a disaster, and attics can be very poor also.
I don't like closed cupboards or storage in tight cases.
But if following advice and using silica gel a Peli case may be O.K. I am not sure.

 

[ukorim]

Thanks for the information Binastro.

I did think it looked like fungus and as I said I've seen the same thing in another pair of 8x42 SE - almost identical to what I have.

I purchased these from new and from day one they've been kept in a sealed Peli case always at room temperature. They rarely go outside and have never been in the wet so it surprised me to see this.

Do you think Nikon would replace the inner lens or would they attempt to clean it off?

They are still covered under the Nikon 10 year warranty for parts only (5 years parts+labour, 5 years parts).

I have a pair of 8x32 HGL that I also use.

 

[Binastro]

If the moisture is in the binocular and then sealed in a Peli case I would think this could increase the possibility of fungus.
What is the relative humidity in your room?

If the fungus is between the lens elements, an optical expert would separate the elements, clean and then rebalsam.
But Nikon would just replace if they have spare objectives.
If on the rear of the back element it could just be cleaned, but there seems to be some coating damage or balsam separation?
How Nikon would deal with this, I don't know.

I would enquire from an expert on storage. I don't like the idea of sealed cases or cupboards.
At least fresh silica gel should be in the case.
I keep cases open to the air if possible. But the humidity must be low. Normally it about 20C here and at the moment 35% humidity. It sometimes goes to 45% or higher, but I try to keep it low.

Some deserts have, I think, 5% relative humidity. They keep perhaps 1,000 aircraft stored in the open.
In Chile perhaps, some places have not had rain for 400 years?

In Hong Kong, stripping lenses and binoculars used to be standard.
Movie lens hirers still strip lenses regularly in the U.K. But these lenses are £10,000 each and more.

I have an 8x32 SE and 10x42 SE but don't like them because of blackouts. Some people are not troubled by this. Maybe they wear glasses.

It is up to you whether you want to return the 10x42 SE to Nikon or just use and enjoy it.
As I said, nothing lasts for ever.

P.S.
If Nikon have spare objectives, you could ask the cost.
I doubt that they would separate an objective and just replace a rear element.
If it is only on the rear surface they might clean at no cost, but I don't know the actual situation without seeing the binocular.
It might only need one new objective. The coatings would be matched if possible.

Horace Dall used to separate, clean, rebalsam and also make lenses himself.
Probably thousands in his lifetime.
Few do this nowadays. Perhaps only a few skilled amateur telescope makers.

 

[dries1]

ukorim,

Regarding the storage of the glass, Binastro stated the range of humidity, keep in mind if the ambient air temp is 75 degrees and the humidity is above 60 %, this may a contributing problem over time, I assume you have silica gel packets inside the case as well. Once inside the (glass/internals) growth will take place with the right conditions, albeit slow.

Regarding service on the SE, here in the US, they would replace the binocular, they would not service it, however Nikon of Europe may do things differently. I would check with them (Nikon). I have a private company in the US service my SEs,clean/adjust if they need service, parts unfortunately are likely gone by the wayside.

Others in the UK like Binastro may chime in on this topic and offer more information.

Regards,

Andy W.

 

[Kevin Conville]

If the moisture is in the binocular and then sealed in a Peli case I would think this could increase the possibility of fungus.

That was my first thought.
Dry and ventilated would be the place to store any optics.

A Pelican case, or some such, would be best as temporary storage under harsh/wet conditions.

Whenever I get my bins wet I leave them on a table for a few days to thoroughly dry before I put them in a cabinet.

 

[jring]

Hi,

I agree that this looks like the start of fungus, although in its current form it is probably not yet a big problem optically. Long term storage in a sealed container has been the bane of lots of optics, dry and well ventilated are the keywords...

We have had warranty cases for SEs before in here where Nikon was unable or unwilling to repair and offered an MHG 10x42 as replacement - not sure if that will be the case here, but be prepared for it.

Not sure if this can be easily cleaned up by an independent repairer - the blue area around the fungus looks like the cement comes apart here which means the fungus is between the cemented doublet. That would mean the cemented doublet needs to be separated (which can take a long time even with strong solvents), the elements cleaned and then re-cemented. Pretty involved and might be quite time consuming.

Another option is to try to kill the fungus via UV exposure - it will then die and not grow further. This has been done successfully in the past. Although with a cemented objective lens one should be careful when using the simplest UV source, the sun, as prolonged exposure might damage the cement due to overheating.
Also never use normal binoculars or telescope to observe the sun - instant and fatal eye damage will result!

Joachim

 

[james holdsworth]

I've always left my bins out on my desk, no case or caps and have never had any problems, just a bit more dust to blow off..

 

[ukorim]

I live and learn. I thought I was doing the best thing by keeping them in an airtight case but obviously this is not the case (excuse the pun!). Thanks for all your comments regarding this issue.

 

[MandoBear]

I would think/hope that a simple stripping down and cleaning would see you right on this one. If Nikon can do that - fine. If not, maybe consider one of the other independent binocular repairers - OptRep Optical Repairs of Selsey, West Sussex, or East Coast Binocular Repairs of Ryston, Norfolk. I've no affiliation to either, but both are known for good service.

If you value your bins, I wouldn't "just leave it" - fungus can, and will, get worse in our UK climate, but if it's nipped in the bud, it can be removed and stopped without further harmul effects.

P.S. I agree with the others who say that airtight cases are a bad idea for long-term storage. Somehwere where the air can circulate is much better.

 

[Binastro]

Perhaps Nikon is the best bet.
At least they can give the best possible advice.
They may be generous.

If the balsam/cement is failing then the cheapest way is a new objective.

If it is just on the outer rear inner surface cleaning is simple at this stage.

B.

 

[WJC]

I noticed today what appears to be an oil or fungus contamination in a couple of places on the inside of the objective lens (one side only).
These 10x42 SE were purchased in 2011 from Clifton Cameras and have the serial number 8700.
I have attached a photo and I'm hoping someone may be able to tell me what it is (the containment is top right).

The spooky thing is that I purchased some 10x42 SE in 2007 from ebay and these had a similar problem. I returned them to the seller who confirmed they were only 3 months old. Now for the spooky part - I just looked at some old images that I sent the seller and noticed the serial number of these was 8704!
(4 years older than mine and only 4 digits apart).

The appropriate part of the attached pages will be obvious. If that really is the start of fungus growth, please let us know. I have never seen such. :cat:

Bill

 

[dries1]

Bill,

Pic No.4 nailed it, it appears not to be fungus. I thought the location at the edge of the objective was strange, I have never seen fungus in that specific location on an objective.

Andy W,

 

[WJC]

Bill,

Pic No.4 nailed it, it appears not to be fungus. I thought the location at the edge of the objective was strange, I have never seen fungus in that specific location on an objective.

Andy W,

Hi, Andy:

Nor have I. Neither the large discoloration. :cat:

Bill

 

[ukorim]

I spoke to Gary at East Coast Binoculars so that will be an option if no luck with Nikon.

Bins are being shipped back to Nikon UK today with the "limited 10 year warranty".

I suspect Nikon will try and avoid repairing this blaming storage conditions etc. If it is a problem with the cement failing between the objective lens and not fungus then hopefully that "may" be covered, who knows.

I will update this thread when I hear back.

 

[dries1]

My money is on Nikon first saying parts hold, then replace product. Just request that you want them back if you do not want them replaced.

Andy W.

 

[ukorim]

I also suspect they won't stock spares any more for the SE. Also UK Warranties in general are far more restrictive, less generous and shorter than US warranties. In the US I think these would be guaranteed for life?