Nikon to Exit the H**Ting caper ..... ? (1 Viewer)

[tenex]

I should have included an asterisk or two in the title - the H ... T is an in-joke reference to another farcical marketing campaign from a certain blue badged brand ...... products that are now also defunct, though the technology would be welcome in products that we actually buy.

I have to admit I didn't get that, and didn't follow the HT's marketing well enough to recall precisely what you're referring to even now. (Caper? as in knife?)

 

[NDhunter]

Nikon dropping their premium EDG line of binoculars is a hole I would like to see them fill. I think the MHG range is a fine product that seems very well made - personally I would just like to see the optics quality improved a bit.

I'd be very interested in seeing what Nikon could do for a top notch birding binocular - ie not the WX extreme - whatever that is meant to be. To me, the MHG form factor is perfect. I would like to see a lighter CFRP chassis, some dual density or other armour lightweighting, a lightweight knurled metal focusing wheel, and importantly bump the optics right up. Keep the wide fields, improve the field quality a bit, increase the brightness and glare control. More FL and HT glass, more aspherics, and designed and finished to a higher optical standard (far exceeding the resolution standards), along with state of the art coatings technology.

I think such a product line in 42mm and 32mm ranges could go all whoop *ss on Zeiss's SF, Leica's NV, and Swarovski's SV.

High profit, halo models seem to be congruent with Nikon's business remodeling and market positioning. Sure that frog is jumping with it's nose pretty close to the practical improvement limit wall - but there are a lot of people in the world (more and more every day) - surely there are enough of them interested in connecting with nature to make the investment worthwhile .... :cat:

Your belief that Nikon will exit the Sport Optics market just shows how blinkered and out of touch some of the members that hang around on the bino forum are. I am sure that Nikon Camera is quite well aware of what the 'Sport Optics' market (a peculiar US centric bit of marketing bunkum anyway) is for ....... :cat: For those unable to see that then I am sure there are other forums more (a)kin








Chosun :gh:

Chosun:

You have made an interesting post, and I feel qualified to help with my thoughts on the situation, as I have several years of experience with the EDG and the Monarch HG. The EDG is very alpha and is done very well, just look at the accolades, and how reviewers like Allbino's have rated it, you know it is at the top on some lists at #1.

The Monarch HG models check off all your lists for a top notch birding model, as you stated light in weight, you have it with the HG, it is a very slimmed down model, with magnesium chassis and light armor, it comes in around 24.5 oz. compared to the industry average of 28. Plastic only comes in with Nikon Monarch 7 models made in china, and you should know plastic is not
the preferred structure of a quality binocular, Zeiss told us that. The Monarch HG also has very nice and bright optics, Nikon knows very well how to do all of this. This model is not a clone of anything else, so I like that part.

The Monarch HG also offers a larger than average FOV, another positive we see mentioned every day on this site. So, I suppose we will see if Nikon does bring out another top regular alpha binocular, beyond the EDG. They certainly have the ability, look at the WX, there is nothing else at all like it, a cutting edge astro binocular. I commend Nikon making some special 100th Anniversary efforts on sports optics, that was a nice move.

I agree with others, Nikon does a poor job of marketing and selling its optics products, and has lots of work to do there.

Jerry

 

[Troubador]

Ladies & Gentlemen, the topic of hunting is a complex one and an important one, and it is understandable that members are keen to discuss it. However the place to discuss it is on Ruffled Feathers, not on the Binocular Forum pages.

Lee
Moderator

 

[Omid]

Not sure why you would even make that comment.

You do realize that you are on "BIRDForum" right?

I wonder how many folk have even read the site's Policy and Rules ?
https://www.birdforum.net/help/Policy


Chosun :gh:

I understand that this is a birding forum. But what I don't understand is why birdwatching should imply "hating hunting"? Why should the members not even be allowed to even spell out the word hunting?

May I remind the Birdforum members that the very fact that we are capable of stereoscopic vision is thanks to the evolutionary progress that we made as a result of our ancestors being hunters? Hunting is the very reason we humans are capable of using binoculars!!! It seems so silly to me that in a forum dedicated to "binoculars", members are being harassed if they make a passing mention of hunting!! How, absurd is that? Could we love the light but hate the sun that gave it to us?!

So, lets all not get resentful towards what is a highly honorable and respectful activity in view of many (including myself). Birdwatching is a respectful activity and so is hunting. This forum is about birdwatching so we'll naturally focus on that. But a casual mention of hunting here and there should be allowed too.

Respectfully,
-Omid, a proud hunter

 

[dantheman]

I understand that this is a birding forum.

Opinions polarise, petty arguments get bigger. It's just not worth the hassle!!!

(Don't forget the cultural side too - this is predominantly a British-based forum. The great unwashed British public, and birding public in general are (generally speaking) pretty much either anti-hunting or at the least not pro-hunting ...)

 

[quincy88]

There is a bit about this tread that puzzles me, but the part that puzzles me the most is that riflescopes are typically used to hunt mammals...

 

[tenex]

(Don't forget the cultural side too - this is predominantly a British-based forum. The great unwashed British public, and birding public in general are (generally speaking) pretty much either anti-hunting or at the least not pro-hunting ...)

This is an interesting difference which I don't fully understand. Is it because hunting is/was more of an upperclass pasttime in the UK?

(Moderators: strictly speaking this is not a question about hunting, but national culture )

 

[Chosun Juan]

Not sure why you would even make that comment.

You do realize that you are on "BIRDForum" right?

I wonder how many folk have even read the site's Policy and Rules ?
https://www.birdforum.net/help/Policy

..... I don't understand .....

Ladies & Gentlemen, the topic of hunting is a complex one and an important one, and it is understandable that members are keen to discuss it. However the place to discuss it is on Ruffled Feathers, not on the Binocular Forum pages.
Lee
Moderator

Please ... !

Once more for recoil affected? - this is a direct quote (my em-phas-is) from the linked BIRDFORUM site's Policy & Rules .....

"Please - no discussions relating to hunting, ...."

That's why Omid (&others) ..... coz dem's da rulz ....... :smoke:





Chosun :gh:

 

[jgraider]

There is a bit about this tread that puzzles me, but the part that puzzles me the most is that riflescopes are typically used to hunt mammals...

And by the military, which protects YOU, and me, BTW.

Chosun, YOU brought up the subject, not anyone else. Deal with it.

 

[quincy88]

Maybe moderators should just shut this thread down. Hunting is in the title, albeit obscured by the use of asterisks, and an opinion was implicit in the first post.
Maybe the rules should be adhered to?
Speaking of the rules: Abusive Comments, Flaming, or derogatory insults or comments are strictly against the rules.
What's with calling your fellow forum members "Motherf*cking Stupid?"
Again with the asterisks. You aren't obscuring anything.

 

[Chosun Juan]

Chosun:

You have made an interesting post, and I feel qualified to help with my thoughts on the situation, as I have several years of experience with the EDG and the Monarch HG. The EDG is very alpha and is done very well, just look at the accolades, and how reviewers like Allbino's have rated it, you know it is at the top on some lists at #1.

The Monarch HG models check off all your lists for a top notch birding model, as you stated light in weight, you have it with the HG, it is a very slimmed down model, with magnesium chassis and light armor, it comes in around 24.5 oz. compared to the industry average of 28. Plastic only comes in with Nikon Monarch 7 models made in china, and you should know plastic is not
the preferred structure of a quality binocular, Zeiss told us that. The Monarch HG also has very nice and bright optics, Nikon knows very well how to do all of this. This model is not a clone of anything else, so I like that part.

The Monarch HG also offers a larger than average FOV, another positive we see mentioned every day on this site. So, I suppose we will see if Nikon does bring out another top regular alpha binocular, beyond the EDG. They certainly have the ability, look at the WX, there is nothing else at all like it, a cutting edge astro binocular. I commend Nikon making some special 100th Anniversary efforts on sports optics, that was a nice move.

I agree with others, Nikon does a poor job of marketing and selling its optics products, and has lots of work to do there.

Jerry

Jerry,

I agree that Nikon makes some fine models in the MHG and EDG. I would like to see them upgrade both models with better optical performance for the MHG, and more Fov and a lighter EDG. The way to do this while keeping the binocular weight low (or even reduced) could be to use some form of Carbon Fibre.

I also agree that Nikon's Marketing and Sales efforts let them down (it seems recent news has it that US Servicing is to be further geographically concentrated and I can't imagine that would make folks happy unless they can totally streamline the logistics process to offer quicker turnaround for customers .... ). Perhaps something high tech like Carbon Fibre can provide a welcome halo (or hero) USP for Nikon.

Zeiss tried to tell us that magnesium was superior (and marketed it loudly with the HT range - a range that is now discontinued). If I read member's views correctly then I think the Glass Fibre Reinforced Plastic chassis of the Zeiss FL was well loved - to a man, and woman - I can't recall anyone ever raising a complaint about the chassis material or strength.

Other industries are full steam ahead with the adoption of Carbon Fibre - Nikon would do well to jump on board .... with all the different materials formulas (hence price/ performance ratios) Nikon could find an appropriate one for each market segment (similar to what they do now - only a step up). You can even reinforce Magnesium Alloys with Carbon Fibre for a lighter, stronger product (as Canon uses in some of their high end MKIII L lenses). Lots of opportunity for Nikon.

Very interesting read here:-
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25833264





Chosun :gh:

 

[Steve C]

CJ,

"coz dem's da rulz"

OK if that is the case then why did you post the silly thing to begin with? Since you seem to be an avid anti hunter within a largely anti hunting forum, I wonder about some things.

First, the post was about riflescopes...in, of all places a binocular forum. I would think the amount of riflescopes used in birding is probably too small to calculate.

Second, the OP was about hunting.

Third, you obviously are aware of 1 & 2 above. You knew before you posted to begin with what the result would likely be...so why bother? If myself or another BF hunter oriented member would have had the audacity to post about rifle scopes and hunting, we would have had to dig a hole pretty quickly. If hunting seems to be de facto verboten, than that's is what it should be...off limits. Seems to illustrate a double standard of sorts.

To be clear I do not care if people are either anti or pro hunting. However I try pretty hard to abide by the apparent majority opinion here and stick to my opinion of optics. There are other forums available to handle either pro or anti hunting philosophies.

 

[NDhunter]

Steve:

Well said, I agree the OP seemed to be looking for a reason to have a battle...not needed on the forum.

Jerry

 

[Chosun Juan]

.... Hunting is in the title, albeit obscured by the use of asterisks, and an opinion was implicit in the first post.
Maybe the rules should be adhered to?
Speaking of the rules: Abusive Comments, Flaming, or derogatory insults or comments are strictly against the rules.
What's with calling your fellow forum members "Motherf*cking Stupid?"
Again with the asterisks. You aren't obscuring anything.

That's a gross misrepresentation of the intention of this thread. I was quite clear and specific what it was about. Any "opinion" you have interpreted as "implicit in the first post" is purely your assumption - which I might add is completely wrong.

It has been spelled out a number of times by myself and the Moderators what are and what aren't appropriate topics of discussion. The fact that certain members wilfully ignore this and continue on in the very next post after a Moderator has spoken is quite indicative of their comprehension and willingness to follow rules. (Quite interesting from a Psychoanalytic point of view but that's OT and my time is expensive).

Perhaps this is why 'God' had to put in an appearance ...... :cat:

Seriously if people have nothing on topic to contribute to the thread then you are welcome to leave - start your own thread in the relevant forum even.

With most riflescopes being variable magnification, the only thing of relevance I can see is why that zoom capability (also featured in Nikon's camera lenses) hasn't been employed in higher end binoculars ?




Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

CJ,

"coz dem's da rulz"

OK if that is the case then why did you post the silly thing to begin with? Since you seem to be an avid anti hunter within a largely anti hunting forum, I wonder about some things.

First, the post was about riflescopes...in, of all places a binocular forum. I would think the amount of riflescopes used in birding is probably too small to calculate.

Second, the OP was about hunting.

Third, you obviously are aware of 1 & 2 above. You knew before you posted to begin with what the result would likely be...so why bother? If myself or another BF hunter oriented member would have had the audacity to post about rifle scopes and hunting, we would have had to dig a hole pretty quickly. If hunting seems to be de facto verboten, than that's is what it should be...off limits. Seems to illustrate a double standard of sorts.

To be clear I do not care if people are either anti or pro hunting. However I try pretty hard to abide by the apparent majority opinion here and stick to my opinion of optics. There are other forums available to handle either pro or anti hunting philosophies.

Steve,

You are a pretty reasonable and fair dinkum fulla in my experience - so take this gently - but you've got your wires crossed.

To spell it out yet again the OP was about business.

For any business to lose product lines cuts into the overall overhead recovery. This has ramifications for the business going forward. That is what I wanted to address. Good for binoculars? - probably ..... (depends on the management I would say).
Remember too that's a company's reputation also feeds back into the marketing cycle ..... :hippy:





Chosun :gh:

 

[quincy88]

You titled this thread "Nikon Exiting the H**Ting caper ..... ?"
Caper - an activity or escapade, typically one that is illicit or ridiculous.

Yay !

You said "Yay!" and have an emoticon that is jumping for joy.


I guess it was my mistake for taking this as an opinion...


As far as following the rules...
"Tell me it isn't possible for people to be this motherf*ckin' stupid."

 

[Steve C]

CJ,

The veneer which you try to hide behind is way too thin to provide any protection. With all due respect, I'm not buying that at all. Your title has your characteristic H**Ting moniker. If the thread was about business, the premise would gave been along the lines of "Nikon's new corporate direction will limit Sports Optics to Binoculars and Spotting scopes only". The H word would have been unnecessary. It remains my opinion that you had to know where this would go. You are obviously an intelligent individual.

 

[Chosun Juan]

You titled this thread "Nikon Exiting the H**Ting caper ..... ?"
Caper - an activity or escapade, typically one that is illicit or ridiculous.

You said "Yay!" and have an emoticon that is jumping for joy.

I guess it was my mistake for taking this as an opinion...

Look young fella (there's no way that you'd be female - you can bang on about your interpretation of my interpretation until the cows come home - it ain't gonna make a jot of difference.

My thread, my intentions, my interpretation - either accept it or buckle up for an interesting (but wholly unnecessary) life ! :cat:

Caper: unusual https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/caper

I'm right in there barracking for Nikon - is this a "Yay" business decision? (for them - not you) ...... if you have an on topic analysis - you tell me .....




Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

CJ,

The veneer which you try to hide behind is way too thin to provide any protection. With all due respect, I'm not buying that at all. You title has your characteristic H**Ting moniker. If the thread was about business, the premise would gave been along the lines of "Nikon's new corporate direction will limit Sports Optics to Binoculars and Spotting scopes only". The H word would have been unnecessary. It remains my opinion that you had to know where this would go.

Steve,

I hope I haven't credited you with too much 'fair dinkumness' lol.
Perhaps you're just having a bad day - the HT thing as you will be well aware was in reference to the Zeiss binocular, business segment and marketing campaign and it's ultimate demise (a folly? a caper? a dalliance? havin a go? lol y'all decide - excuse me for having a sense of humour ! o

Trust me - if I wanted to rip into anyone or everyone I would - but in the appropriate forum :smoke:

It's brunch here and I'm off to fetch me a nice kangaroo meat pie.

I will check in on all the relevant insightful business analysis and thoughts when I return :t:




Chosun :gh:

 

[Omid]

The OP seemed to be looking for a reason to have a battle...not needed on the forum.

CJ, The veneer which you try to hide behind is way too thin to provide any protection. With all due respect, I'm not buying that at all.

I agree with you (Steve and Jerry). This thread from it's very beginning was designed to provoke a reaction. In other words it was a "trap"! While having a "trapper" speaking out against "hunting" is very amusing, I wonder why moderators have not given this user any warnings? The Birdforum policy page says "do not use this site to bad-name or depreciate any other site or community". The OP certainly did that and he/she/it* keeps doing it freely with no reaction from the moderators.

-Omid


*: Before I switched to working in optics, I worked for about 10 years in the fields of Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence. The posts by this certain user look like they are being generated by an artificial intelligence (AI) algorithm whose code was originally written by a first graduate student who then dropped-out of school and his professor asked a new graduate student to read, "understand" and complete the first student's code.