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NL Pure condensation on eye pieces (1 Viewer)

Gijs van Ginkel

Well-known member
Dennnis, post 20,
I completely agree with you: fogging on the outside of lenses has nothing to do with binocular construction. When I put test binoculars in a minus 20 freezer for 24 hours, fogging immediately occurs when I take them out at room temperature, it is a matter of fundamental physics.
Gijs van Ginkel
 

Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
Agree with tenex, that external condensation has nothing to do with seals and any differences left/right must be down to the user, as the eyepieces are identical. Similarly it's absurd for somone at Swarovski to imply that the problem could in some way be down to sample variation.
If this particular model is more susceptible to condensation, then it must be related to the dimensions and thermal conductivity of the optical glass used for the eye lens.

John
 

nzwild

Active member
Dennnis, post 20,
I completely agree with you: fogging on the outside of lenses has nothing to do with binocular construction. When I put test binoculars in a minus 20 freezer for 24 hours, fogging immediately occurs when I take them out at room temperature, it is a matter of fundamental physics.
Gijs van Ginkel

Agree, Physics. Temperature of the instrument and proximity of the eye.
How close is the users eye to the eyepiece?
Are NL users pushing this envelope in order to gain full FOV view?

Would be interesting to compare with other instruments, however ease of use with eyeglasses suggests this shouldn't be the case

Personally I sometimes end up using less eye relief on a closed pupil (bright day)and it can give a different view with impression of more immersion.

NL users may need to compromise and 'back off' on a cold morning. Worst case scenario start doing the odd wipe with a soft cloth.
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
Agree with tenex, that external condensation has nothing to do with seals and any differences left/right must be down to the user, as the eyepieces are identical. Similarly it's absurd for somone at Swarovski to imply that the problem could in some way be down to sample variation.
If this particular model is more susceptible to condensation, then it must be related to the dimensions and thermal conductivity of the optical glass used for the eye lens.

John
"If this particular model is more susceptible to condensation, then it must be related to the dimensions and thermal conductivity of the optical glass used for the eye lens."

Exactly.
 
I have just managed to try a second pair of NL Pure in 10x42 and after extensive testing the same issues with condensation happened again. I therefore conclude that this model is more prone to this issue than other models for my particular circumstance. At the same time I tried an EL 10x42 and an EL 8 x 32. Interestingly the EL 10 x 42 did not condense at all and the EL 8 x 32 condensed a little but not to the extent of the NL. I also found that, to my eyes, the EL 10x42 exhibited better contrast than the NL and this made focusing easier and more exacting for me and was demonstrated in that I could read letters on road signage at the edge of visual range easier at distance with the EL in my side by side test (I found the same with a 10x 32 SF I tried also). The NL is slightly brighter and definitely has a wider field of borderless view but these advantages were over shadowed for me by the condensation issues and greater contrast/focusing ease of the EL. I purchased the EL 10 x 42 and saved £900 and am very comfortable with my decision. Now I am looking for a good lighter weight 8x32 or 8x30 to purchase with my unexpected underspend.
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
I have just managed to try a second pair of NL Pure in 10x42 and after extensive testing the same issues with condensation happened again. I therefore conclude that this model is more prone to this issue than other models for my particular circumstance. At the same time I tried an EL 10x42 and an EL 8 x 32. Interestingly the EL 10 x 42 did not condense at all and the EL 8 x 32 condensed a little but not to the extent of the NL. I also found that, to my eyes, the EL 10x42 exhibited better contrast than the NL and this made focusing easier and more exacting for me and was demonstrated in that I could read letters on road signage at the edge of visual range easier at distance with the EL in my side by side test (I found the same with a 10x 32 SF I tried also). The NL is slightly brighter and definitely has a wider field of borderless view but these advantages were over shadowed for me by the condensation issues and greater contrast/focusing ease of the EL. I purchased the EL 10 x 42 and saved £900 and am very comfortable with my decision. Now I am looking for a good lighter weight 8x32 or 8x30 to purchase with my unexpected underspend
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
I really don't understand your condensation issues with the NL. I have not experienced any more condensation with my NL than any binocular I have ever had and I really can't see why you would but if you are not happy with them, you are saving a lot of money buying the EL. I have compared the NL to the EL and I find them better in almost every way including FOV, CA control, transparency, focuser smoothness, ergonomics and especially color rendering. But we are all different and binocular choice comes largely down to personal preference. I bet it would frustrate the R&D Department at Swarovski after spending 30 million dollars developing the NL as a successor to the EL if they read your post, but I am sure they realize they can't please all the people all the time. The majority of the reviews and opinions have been positive for the NL and most birders consider it a significant step forward from the EL.
 

nzwild

Active member
Condensation issues are extremely frustrating when the conditions are ripe (try extended viewing on frosty mornings !!)
Large R&D budgets do not provide all the design solutions (look at America cup boat development budgets vs results).
Owamboland has carefully tested with more than one sample before choosing an instrument that meets his requirements.
'Older' designs have not become less effective just because a new version has hit the shelves.
 

Torview

Well-known member
Maybe the problem is some of the eye pieces are not getting their swarodour coatings applied, I`ve noticed a huge difference with external fogging on optics that do not have these coatings, my previous Leica, Swaro and current Zeiss and Kowa binoculars all reduce external fogging substantially.
 

NDhunter

Experienced observer
United States
I think it is becoming more obvious, this is just a personal problem, the user is not adjusting the eyecups properly, as in letting
in some air, or backing your eyes off and letting things get to equilibrium.

That means just getting used to the binoculars, no matter what make and model.

It is not a problem with the Swarovski........

Jerry
 

PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
I'm quite astonished that if a technical / manufacturing "issue" does indeed exist, this so far is the only reported public documented occurence of this particular issue. An unusual situation indeed.
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
I agree with Jerry. It is most likely a personal problem. This is the only owner of the NL that has reported this problem and if it was a problem more owners would have reported it. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that Swarovski forgot to apply the Swarodour coatings during production. That is really reaching for an explanation. I haven't had a bit of a problem with my NL as far as condensation and I don't think there is one.
 

nzwild

Active member
I agree with Jerry. It is most likely a personal problem. This is the only owner of the NL that has reported this problem and if it was a problem more owners would have reported it. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that Swarovski forgot to apply the Swarodour coatings during production. That is really reaching for an explanation. I haven't had a bit of a problem with my NL as far as condensation and I don't think there is one.
I agree, not a coating issue. NZ Bino dude reported it so not the only report. Every bino design will condensate externally in certain situations by varying amounts. Just because you havn't experienced it does not mean it is not an issue for another user. It becomes just another design factor I take into consideration when contemplating a purchase. Not a deal breaker, just another consideration.
 
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[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
I agree, not a coating issue. NZ Bino dude reported it so not the only report. Every bino design will fog in certain situations by varying amounts. Just because you havn't experienced it does not mean it is not an issue for another user. It becomes just another design factor I take into consideration when contemplating a purchase. Not a deal breaker, just another consideration.
Sorry, but I just can't wrap my head around how the binocular design would affect fogging. It just seems more like a user issue. I have had over 100 binoculars and I have not noticed any difference in how much they fog externally and I have used them all in cold weather.
 

seabee

Member
I tested out 2 pairs of nl’s, (10s and 12s) over 2 days and have compared to a wide variety of other models (Swarovski el 42’s, zeiss victory sf and ht’s, Nikon edg and monarch hg’s), and also was surprised to get some fogging with both nl’s at room temp after a long temperature acclimation, something that has not happened with any of the others. I fiddled with the eyecup extension and warmed them up, and was eventually able to mitigate the problem by adjusting how I held them to my face to allow airflow.

long story short, I do think there’s something to these reports.

I can’t say why this happens, but my guess is that some binoculars sit into my eye sockets, and some perch on my forehead leaving the lower edge of the eyecup free. The NL’s have an unusually fine eyecup adjustment, which I’d speculate makes it easier for people to get just the right setting, and push them into their eye sockets more securely. I suspect using the forehead rest might accentuate this, because you end up using a bit of pressure to lock everything in place.

I was able to adjust and did decide to order a pair, but it was a disconcerting oddity
 

PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
and also was surprised to get some fogging with both nl’s at room temp after a long temperature acclimation, something that has not happened with any of the others. I fiddled with the eyecup extension and warmed them up, and was eventually able to mitigate the problem by adjusting how I held them to my face to allow airflow.
Please, it is external condensation........where warmer air meets a colder surface - not to be confused with an mechanical / faulty or internal issue when fogginess or a milky image may occur. Whilst you've solved the issue by the usual actions of adjusting eyecups and placement. I appreciate some users are perhaps more prone than others, for reasons as above - facial features, positioning and varying surface temperatures.

I can easily "mist" any of my binos up if I so wish - this doesn't make them poorly designed or faulty.
 
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Hermann

Well-known member
Maybe the problem is some of the eye pieces are not getting their swarodour coatings applied, I`ve noticed a huge difference with external fogging on optics that do not have these coatings, my previous Leica, Swaro and current Zeiss and Kowa binoculars all reduce external fogging substantially.
Maybe there are indeed some problems with the hydrophobic coatings. That was my first thought when I looked at this thread as well.

Hermann
 
I think it is becoming more obvious, this is just a personal problem, the user is not adjusting the eyecups properly, as in letting
in some air, or backing your eyes off and letting things get to equilibrium.

That means just getting used to the binoculars, no matter what make and model.

It is not a problem with the Swarovski........

Jerry
Hi there, I can assure you that I tried every combination of eye relief on both sets I tested. I wanted nothing more than to make these bins work for me, but failed. I have used a lots of bins over the past 40 years from a range of manufacturers and have not come across the issue to this degree before. I never found it an issue at all with my EL 8.5x42 over the past 6 years - similar eye cup adjustment design. I will be very surprised if similar issues don't crop up as more NL's get into circulation. If it was a minor issue I could have lived with it - but it significantly impacted on my ability to use the bins - having to remove them from my eyes to de condense every 20 or 30 seconds or so in certain situations I did not find acceptable. It maybe that my particular eye socket shape (I have never noticed it as unusual before!) exacerbated the situation but it also happened when my wife looked through them as well indoors (on the first set, unfortunately she could not test the second set). Winding the eye pieces in to give less relief did seem to help in that it gave more time before condensation appeared (as suggested in an earlier response) but it still appeared and this level of relief did not result in a comfortable view. I really did try everything. It's fine I have found something else that works that I am happy with and wanted to share my experience as it happened.
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
Hi there, I can assure you that I tried every combination of eye relief on both sets I tested. I wanted nothing more than to make these bins work for me, but failed. I have used a lots of bins over the past 40 years from a range of manufacturers and have not come across the issue to this degree before. I never found it an issue at all with my EL 8.5x42 over the past 6 years - similar eye cup adjustment design. I will be very surprised if similar issues don't crop up as more NL's get into circulation. If it was a minor issue I could have lived with it - but it significantly impacted on my ability to use the bins - having to remove them from my eyes to de condense every 20 or 30 seconds or so in certain situations I did not find acceptable. It maybe that my particular eye socket shape (I have never noticed it as unusual before!) exacerbated the situation but it also happened when my wife looked through them as well indoors (on the first set, unfortunately she could not test the second set). Winding the eye pieces in to give less relief did seem to help in that it gave more time before condensation appeared (as suggested in an earlier response) but it still appeared and this level of relief did not result in a comfortable view. I really did try everything. It's fine I have found something else that works that I am happy with and wanted to share my experience as it happened.

Does the eye cup fit tightly around your eye socket without any gaps? Do you notice much light coming in from the sides? I know when I use those Field Optics winged eye cups they form such a good seal I get more condensation on my ocular lenses. Hold the binoculars up to your eyes and have your wife take some pictures from the sides, top and bottom. Maybe the fogging problem is caused by the shape of your eye sockets which just by chance happen to fit the NL eye cups perfectly or too perfectly in this case not letting air circulate around the ocular. Also, I didn't get what click stop do you use the NL eye cups on?
 
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