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Norfolk birding (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter Edward woodwood
- Start date
Songkhran
Well-known member
Fairly inevitably i've heard there is debate about all the Swift sightings today, they are notoriously difficult to ID (evidenced from the fact that only 2? got accepted from a multitude of sightings in the last Norfolk influx in 2003?)
I missed the bird at Blakeney today, strangly magnetised to an area were many birders were seen but few birds - East Hills - all we collectively got amounted to Laps, Chiffy. Blackcap, Hen Harrier and at least one slurried reputation ; - )
These are the best photos i could find online of Pallid Swifts and Common Swifts in overcast conditions
Pallid
http://shropshirebirder.blogspot.com/2009/05/crosby-marine-park-pallid-swift.html
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/search2.cgi?species=Pallid Swift
Common
http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/Sigma Photos.htm (scroll down)
apparently the Beeston bird looked completely different in the warm evening light on the 26th compared with the overcast morning on the 27th - thoughts?
I missed the bird at Blakeney today, strangly magnetised to an area were many birders were seen but few birds - East Hills - all we collectively got amounted to Laps, Chiffy. Blackcap, Hen Harrier and at least one slurried reputation ; - )
These are the best photos i could find online of Pallid Swifts and Common Swifts in overcast conditions
Pallid
http://shropshirebirder.blogspot.com/2009/05/crosby-marine-park-pallid-swift.html
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/search2.cgi?species=Pallid Swift
Common
http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/Sigma Photos.htm (scroll down)
apparently the Beeston bird looked completely different in the warm evening light on the 26th compared with the overcast morning on the 27th - thoughts?
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Dave Appleton
Well-known member
A good blog post today from David Sibley is worth a read - quite pertinent to some of the recent discussion on here. Lessons for all of us there (in other words this isn't just directed at those indidviduals who've been questionned lately).
I think you can get Hawfinch in the surrounding area and LA all year, of course cold weather brings them into the Arb. more regularly. I wouldn't just not go, because there havent been a report of them yet, you may well find them
Thanks mate!
firstreesjohn
Well-known member
I can but agree and have seen more than several Pallids/Commons in the UK which were impossible to ID. Sometimes, this was because of the poor light, sometimes because of distant views, sometimes a miserable combination- and often in cold rain and wind.
In good light in Spain, Pallids were easy.
In astounding weather in north Norfolk, I have watched a Little Egret appear to turn from white into a grey worthy of a dark morph Western Reef ! Thus, an already darkish bird will be even more difficult.
O.Reville1989
I started off with nothing and I've still got some
Having seen Pallids in Spain I agree John. Light can make all the difference.
Jack Harrison
Well-known member
I joined this forum a week ago. This is not the first nasty put-down I have seen in that time. As this seems to epitomize the tone of this group, then I have to say good bye. I am looking for a more friendly forum.
Jack
PYRTLE
Old Berkshire Boy
Blunted
Sounds like my old teacher, here's the topic, now discuss!
Quoted from the excellent little Macmillan guide, " ....Pallid Swift is not actually difficult to identify if seen well. Prolonged, close range views in good light are, however, essential and all differences should be carefully checked." Would suggest that this is why only two? of the many sightings were accepted. I looked at the Suffolk bird last year for a while and only in one very near pass managed to discern blunt wingtips. Also an excellent article in Birding World which purported that many claims of Pallids were perhaps an eastern variation of Common (please do correct me if I've ballsed up). I hope some photos and accounts of the bird seen this overcast evening over Hilltop, Cley shed some light on the subject.
Sounds like my old teacher, here's the topic, now discuss!
Quoted from the excellent little Macmillan guide, " ....Pallid Swift is not actually difficult to identify if seen well. Prolonged, close range views in good light are, however, essential and all differences should be carefully checked." Would suggest that this is why only two? of the many sightings were accepted. I looked at the Suffolk bird last year for a while and only in one very near pass managed to discern blunt wingtips. Also an excellent article in Birding World which purported that many claims of Pallids were perhaps an eastern variation of Common (please do correct me if I've ballsed up). I hope some photos and accounts of the bird seen this overcast evening over Hilltop, Cley shed some light on the subject.
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deboo
.............
Hang on Jack :-/
BF is a very big 'group'. There's always going to be some friction here. It's easier to be confrontational on the internet rather than face to face, but don't let that put you off. You'll probably find these 'keyboard warriors' much more friendly when you meet them in the flesh. Give this forum a break and you will reap the rewards...trust me.
dave...
p.s. and 'big bob joylove' aka Lightthiscandle is a nice bloke...Tim Allwood told me this and I've no reason to doubt him.
Just to echo these thoughts Jack- lightthiscandle always comes across as a decent chap on the forum, I guess he like myself has become a little peeved by some of the more personal stuff on here of late.
What it boils down to, are folk keen on birds. Get involved with that!
Just reading the Norfolk bird and mammal report 2010. Informative description of Icelandic Redwing at Walcott (surely one or two knocking about this winter) and great memories of the River Warbler near Haddiscoe!
Cheers,
Jim.
davethebird
Well-known member
I certainly would not have called the ID on my shots - the wings do looked blunt tipped as the two outer primaries are similar lengths but the light was poor and the bird was almost always directly over head. Let's hope a bit of controversy flushes out some better shots and/or descriptions. :t:
Here's a comparison of a definite Swift and today's.
Attachments
Songkhran
Well-known member
I'd echo that. I know that in the past few weeks this forum has come in for a lot of criticism and i for one have had to realise the is a line you should avoid crossing (and we all get it wrong at times). But at the same time it would be a shame if we have to go down this kind of Johnathan Ross line where we think we have to start censoring ourselves.
I know a few people still go on about the blog i did 'Argy Bargy Birding'. The whole concept with argy bargy is that you can be a bit controversial, voice your opinion but at the same time it comes under this umbrella that its all in the context of birding, a bit of a laugh and not life or death. I've always found the appreciation of nature and 'gettingawayfromitallness' the main focus of my birding. However I also view the controversy and conflict involved in birding exasperating - yes, hilarious (for me at least) but also completely essential to making the hobby what it is - after all we are all political animals . You call someone a stringy get out in the field they know its a joke or a stringy get online and its deemed utterly insulting - really there shouldn't be a difference. I also hope i'm correct in saying Jack, there have been far more helpful, informative and witty posts as there have been 'vicious snipes' since you've been on here.
And on that note just like to say one last thing - I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE ROBIN :-O:-O:-O
Tim P
Well-known member
Jack I wouldn't give up just yet. Its only in the last few weeks that it has gone down hill with various members pontificating and opinionating. There are still a trusted few who still follow Tim Allwoods original thread guidelines and give useful advice and updates with regard to Norfolk sightings. Thinking of taking in the Shrike at Horsey am tomorrow any 1 see it today??
Songkhran
Well-known member
I'm just going on fieldguides and still a bit gutted i didn't see one today, work the patch every day for weeks and then the first day you are away!! but i think it looks ok for Pallid. On the shot of the upperparts you can just make out the saddle back and although the wings do look fairly uniformly dark you can see slightly paler secondaries Think this is a very 'amorphous' species. If you look at your photo in in direct comparison with the Common swift the Common Swifts body probably looks more rounded but the Pallid? seems to be in quite a stretched posture. I've always though the blunt wing tips are another very amorphous feature and changes on different birds so a weaker id feature.
Might be worth putting it on the ID so the experts can get involved
Tractorboy69
Well-known member
Maybe also worth noting that there were potentially 2 or even possibly 3 swifts present in the Runton/Beeston/Sheringham area today.
Simon
Simon
stuart white
Well-known member
All Pallid's or one pallid and 1-2 common's ?
Did the blakeney bird ever get id'd, was that then the bird at cley or was that the sheringham bird ? All very confusing
I was pretty happy I was watching a pallid swift from beeston bump at c11am (same bird as Dave's photos). First quite distant and then once coming close enough to see more of the plumage detail. It banked and showed the dark outer most primaries and then a paler window in the wing. It also looked very pale fore headed, with a big white chin patch and contrasting dark eye patch.
walking back to the car we had it overhead, much harder to say in silouhette, definitely one to see against back ground or in much better light.
cheers
Stuart
Cortonbirds
Well-known member
Pallid Swifts are a nightmare. The first I saw in this country was over Winterton Church and it was very distinctive. Amazingly pale and wierd languid flight. The colouration was probably due to great light and very close views. This is still the "best" Pallid Swift I have seen either here or abroad.
So I then thought they were easy, then a week or so later one turned up at Sizewell, being a Suffolk tick I went down for it. The light was poor but the views I had made it look a completely different bird and species to the Winterton bird. Admitedly it was distant and i didnt see it well against a dark background. On site many (including some very prominent observers) were saying it looked like a common....and I agreed. It didnt go on the list....but....a month or so later Rob Wilson showed me a photo he had taken of it...and yes it was indeed a Pallid Swift and the photo didnt really look anything like what we saw in the field.
I also went to see the bird released at Weybourne beach car park...which looked really really dark in the hand and on release....head scratching all around.....
So I then thought they were easy, then a week or so later one turned up at Sizewell, being a Suffolk tick I went down for it. The light was poor but the views I had made it look a completely different bird and species to the Winterton bird. Admitedly it was distant and i didnt see it well against a dark background. On site many (including some very prominent observers) were saying it looked like a common....and I agreed. It didnt go on the list....but....a month or so later Rob Wilson showed me a photo he had taken of it...and yes it was indeed a Pallid Swift and the photo didnt really look anything like what we saw in the field.
I also went to see the bird released at Weybourne beach car park...which looked really really dark in the hand and on release....head scratching all around.....
Lightthiscandle
David Bryant
Hmmmm!
I really don't see how my comments could've been construed as aggressive or offensive. They were meant to be encouraging!
What did I write?
1) The bird was either a TD or it wasn't: we'll never know!
2) Its ID is only of genuine concern to the finder(s): most people have seen plenty of them: so will you in time.
3) Fundamentally. peer-approval is of no interest to most old gits like me: as an example, I found a GGS at Rendlesham yesterday: I mentioned it on the Suffolk thread so anyone in the area could have a peek at it. If no-one else sees it, it'd be a shame, but not worth a 30-post thread on BF. Likewise, if people questioned my ID: no worries! My wife (403 UK) saw it: I (411 UK) saw it. Three friends in the car saw it.
We know what we saw: that's enough.
Now if you'd found a WBD or a PD, I could understand your anxiety.....
I really don't see how my comments could've been construed as aggressive or offensive. They were meant to be encouraging!
What did I write?
1) The bird was either a TD or it wasn't: we'll never know!
2) Its ID is only of genuine concern to the finder(s): most people have seen plenty of them: so will you in time.
3) Fundamentally. peer-approval is of no interest to most old gits like me: as an example, I found a GGS at Rendlesham yesterday: I mentioned it on the Suffolk thread so anyone in the area could have a peek at it. If no-one else sees it, it'd be a shame, but not worth a 30-post thread on BF. Likewise, if people questioned my ID: no worries! My wife (403 UK) saw it: I (411 UK) saw it. Three friends in the car saw it.
We know what we saw: that's enough.
Now if you'd found a WBD or a PD, I could understand your anxiety.....
Matthebirder
Well-known member
I see Norfolk forum is hotting up for the long winter nights, no birding possible after work for most of us, so lots of time to discuss very little. Norfolk forum is a great place to keep a feel on what's happening from afar, if like me the sea is a long way away. I think some of the 'moaning newbies' ought to get off their keyboards and learn what real birding is about. Us oldies had no pagers, mobiles, internet forums to guide us (or mis-guide us it seems) in our early years, it was hard graft all the way- at the monthly birdclub you would hear what you had missed and read B.B. 3 months after the birds had gone! Still, keep up all the news and gossip it's way more exciting than the TV and at least you have got the birds and the coast, what more do you need?
