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Norfolk birding (2 Viewers)

Mark Batten

Well-known member
Sort of agree. I also have been a member of the trust for many years and plan to continue to provide my support.

Notwithstanding the above, todays gaff was made by the chief exec no less!!! I do find some of the trusts inflexible opening hours and assess arrangements (my bank is open more often than certain reserves!!) rather strange and unhelpful. Further, I do sometimes wonder if the NWT is more interested in selling coffee, cakes and ice creams to day visitors than it is in its members? That should raise some discussion....
 
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James Emerson

Norwich Birder
The Bewick's Swan is still showing very well on the River Wensum near Cow Tower for any Norwich birders.

Re the Osprey: Its a shame that it got disturbed, but I think that quite a few people are over-reacting. As far as I can tell, the NWT boat got too close once? Any Ospreys breeding in the broads and associated rivers will need to get used to boats. Also, the NWT ran boat trips all through last summer when one or two Ospreys were present, and they didn't leave until late summer, so assuming that this one will leave after flying off once doesn't add up to me. It could just be a passage bird anyway, they are often present for a week or so then move on.
 

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jimbob

Well-known member
Lets not forget that if nobody paid membership fees,in the current economic climate the work that the NWT does would end, and its reserves would fall into disrepair. I suggest that people think about the work that the NWT does before slagging it off for disturbing a single bird. Funny how folks can get so animated over one Osprey (IUCN least concern) being disturbed at a reserve, whilst most people dont give a second thought to the relentless habitat destruction globally.

Well said Daniel. There are frankly more important issues to get animated over; I would direct some of you to the conservation thread, which gets terribly few views.
I have always found the NWT to be both accommodating and welcoming; I led two school visits to Cley and the education department offered an excellent service. Pete's comments are a little concerning, but not enough to make me stop paying my fees. I think we could all try to be a little more understanding of the precarious position NGO's now find themselves in thanks to the current government.
The Broads by their nature are full of man and his boats; if Ospreys don't fancy it, they had better find somewhere else! I would guess with their natural population and range expansion (thanks to NGO's in part) they will be a breeding bird in Norfolk in the near future, and I look forward to that.

Cheers,
Jim.
 

Shaky09

Well-known member
A trip to the patch (Thorpe marshes Norwich) was a fulfilling one with the highlights being 2 x common buzzards overhead, 6x swallows, a nice showing Willow Warbler and the Lrp count up to 3!
But the real gem was catching 2 Cuckoos heading south west over the river . Does any one else know of any others that have been reported over the last few days? I know Jim had one a few days back too.
Shaky
 

mikejf

Active member
I have always supported the NWT but that sorely tested when I made the mistake of visiting Holme before 10am once last year, the warden was staggering rude. A friendly reminder of opening times would have surficed but he was just plain nasty.
 

Phil Andrews

It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Sort of agree. I also have been a member of the trust for many years and plan to continue to provide my support.

Notwithstanding the above, todays gaff was made by the chief exec no less!!! I do find some of the trusts inflexible opening hours and assess arrangements (my bank is open more often than certain reserves!!) rather strange and unhelpful. Further, I do sometimes wonder if the NWT is more interested in selling coffee, cakes and ice creams to day visitors than it is in its members? That should raise some discussion....

For those of us outside of Norfolk it will also be good to see the NWT the same reciprocal arrangement regarding permits / entrance charges that other Wildlife Trusts operate across the country.
 

Mark Batten

Well-known member
I have always supported the NWT but that sorely tested when I made the mistake of visiting Holme before 10am once last year, the warden was staggering rude. A friendly reminder of opening times would have surficed but he was just plain nasty.

I was there Mike, as were a couple of teachers from Rutland. It was early though- about 9-30 am.
 

willowgrouse

Well-known member
A much-needed sense of perspective

Re the Osprey: Its a shame that it got disturbed, but I think that quite a few people are over-reacting...

Spot on James. It is of course the perogative of any fee-paying member to withhold his subscription for any reason he chooses, and some people have very good reasons. However, to bring a little more sense to this debate, it is a fact that if the RSPB members stopped paying their subscriptions it would cease to function in just 6 weeks. Yes - 6 weeks! Monies are committed to conservation as soon as they are available. I have no reason to believe that NWT is any/much different, so those of you that are spouting cr*p about not paying subscription fees need to wake up and get a grip, if you want to have any reserves to visit that is.

There is no doubt that each and every conservation body needs every penny it can get and boat trips, guided walks, education days, etc, all raise badly needed funds. No, not all of its members will agree with everything it does on every single occasion, but if you think whingeing about an osprey being (accidentally) flushed by a boat is relevant in the wider picture of trying to conserve Norfolk's flora and fauna - IT IS NOT. And for the record, ospreys have oversummered several times in the past, in the Broads and in both the Yare and Wensum valleys, and possibly other places too. They may well breed in the future because there are vast areas of broadland that are inaccessible, and because they are being encouraged to by conservation bodies who are spending money erecting nest platforms.

As for the variable opening hours of various reserves - staffing and funding dictate many situations and just because a reserve opens at 10am doesn't mean the warden has been in bed until 09.45am. There is an awful lot going on behind the scenes in all conservation bodies, on all reserves, that the vast majority of visitors/birders take for granted, or have no clue about. Some of it needs to be done when visitors are not on the reserve. If anyone wants to find out more, try volunteering instead of complaining.

Much of the above is possibly the reason why Brendan Joyce doesn't have time to deal with every individual query from his membership. If you can show me a CEO who hasn't given his secretary a briefing to deal with a minor situation you will be very lucky. I will be even more lucky if I can find an active birder who hasn't accidently or inadvertently flushed a bird in his life. For all we know that boat may have approached that Osprey in the same tree several times in previous days before it decided to fly, it just happened to be seen and interpreted as 'being flushed'.

I stress that my comments are directed at no particular individual, but I hope my point is made. It is far, far, better to express our support for the conservation bodies (particularly our own county, or local group) by volunteering and paying membership fees than it is to criticise and complain about a small mistake, if indeed one has been made.
 

JD.1

Well-known member
Can anyone update me on the situation with the land for sale next to Cley? I'm concerned that if this is bought by some outfit with shooting rights that this would pose an unacceptable risk to the NWT's flagship reserve and a place that's loved by so many people. Can someone tell me that there's nothing to worry about please?:-C
 

dwatsonbirder

Well-known member
Spot on James. It is of course the perogative of any fee-paying member to withhold his subscription for any reason he chooses, and some people have very good reasons. However, to bring a little more sense to this debate, it is a fact that if the RSPB members stopped paying their subscriptions it would cease to function in just 6 weeks. Yes - 6 weeks! Monies are committed to conservation as soon as they are available. I have no reason to believe that NWT is any/much different, so those of you that are spouting cr*p about not paying subscription fees need to wake up and get a grip, if you want to have any reserves to visit that is.

There is no doubt that each and every conservation body needs every penny it can get and boat trips, guided walks, education days, etc, all raise badly needed funds. No, not all of its members will agree with everything it does on every single occasion, but if you think whingeing about an osprey being (accidentally) flushed by a boat is relevant in the wider picture of trying to conserve Norfolk's flora and fauna - IT IS NOT. And for the record, ospreys have oversummered several times in the past, in the Broads and in both the Yare and Wensum valleys, and possibly other places too. They may well breed in the future because there are vast areas of broadland that are inaccessible, and because they are being encouraged to by conservation bodies who are spending money erecting nest platforms.

As for the variable opening hours of various reserves - staffing and funding dictate many situations and just because a reserve opens at 10am doesn't mean the warden has been in bed until 09.45am. There is an awful lot going on behind the scenes in all conservation bodies, on all reserves, that the vast majority of visitors/birders take for granted, or have no clue about. Some of it needs to be done when visitors are not on the reserve. If anyone wants to find out more, try volunteering instead of complaining.

Much of the above is possibly the reason why Brendan Joyce doesn't have time to deal with every individual query from his membership. If you can show me a CEO who hasn't given his secretary a briefing to deal with a minor situation you will be very lucky. I will be even more lucky if I can find an active birder who hasn't accidently or inadvertently flushed a bird in his life. For all we know that boat may have approached that Osprey in the same tree several times in previous days before it decided to fly, it just happened to be seen and interpreted as 'being flushed'.

I stress that my comments are directed at no particular individual, but I hope my point is made. It is far, far, better to express our support for the conservation bodies (particularly our own county, or local group) by volunteering and paying membership fees than it is to criticise and complain about a small mistake, if indeed one has been made.

Well said Rich!
 

O.Reville1989

I started off with nothing and I've still got some
Spot on James. It is of course the perogative of any fee-paying member to withhold his subscription for any reason he chooses, and some people have very good reasons. However, to bring a little more sense to this debate, it is a fact that if the RSPB members stopped paying their subscriptions it would cease to function in just 6 weeks. Yes - 6 weeks! Monies are committed to conservation as soon as they are available. I have no reason to believe that NWT is any/much different, so those of you that are spouting cr*p about not paying subscription fees need to wake up and get a grip, if you want to have any reserves to visit that is.

There is no doubt that each and every conservation body needs every penny it can get and boat trips, guided walks, education days, etc, all raise badly needed funds. No, not all of its members will agree with everything it does on every single occasion, but if you think whingeing about an osprey being (accidentally) flushed by a boat is relevant in the wider picture of trying to conserve Norfolk's flora and fauna - IT IS NOT. And for the record, ospreys have oversummered several times in the past, in the Broads and in both the Yare and Wensum valleys, and possibly other places too. They may well breed in the future because there are vast areas of broadland that are inaccessible, and because they are being encouraged to by conservation bodies who are spending money erecting nest platforms.

As for the variable opening hours of various reserves - staffing and funding dictate many situations and just because a reserve opens at 10am doesn't mean the warden has been in bed until 09.45am. There is an awful lot going on behind the scenes in all conservation bodies, on all reserves, that the vast majority of visitors/birders take for granted, or have no clue about. Some of it needs to be done when visitors are not on the reserve. If anyone wants to find out more, try volunteering instead of complaining.

Much of the above is possibly the reason why Brendan Joyce doesn't have time to deal with every individual query from his membership. If you can show me a CEO who hasn't given his secretary a briefing to deal with a minor situation you will be very lucky. I will be even more lucky if I can find an active birder who hasn't accidently or inadvertently flushed a bird in his life. For all we know that boat may have approached that Osprey in the same tree several times in previous days before it decided to fly, it just happened to be seen and interpreted as 'being flushed'.

I stress that my comments are directed at no particular individual, but I hope my point is made. It is far, far, better to express our support for the conservation bodies (particularly our own county, or local group) by volunteering and paying membership fees than it is to criticise and complain about a small mistake, if indeed one has been made.

Fair points well made Richard.
As I said in an earlier post I would never criticise the whole NWT as an organisation. They do fantastic things for Norfolk's wildlife, not just birds.
I think its impossible to tell whether the Osprey in this case was flushed or as you suggest that it just chose to fly at that particular moment, giving the appearance that the boat flushed it.
I think that saying that members should stop paying is, as you say, completely ridiculous and I get why Brendan Joyce was unavailable to comment, he is of course a very busy person.
There are two sides to every story and while it is very easy to say "The boat must have flushed it" there is equal argument for "The bird flew on its own accord".
Whichever way things played out I do not want my comments to be seen as attacking the NWT, certainly not my intention when I bought up the topic of the Ranworth Osprey.
 

firstreesjohn

Well-known member
For those of us outside of Norfolk it will also be good to see the NWT the same reciprocal arrangement regarding permits / entrance charges that other Wildlife Trusts operate across the country.

This is an excellent point, Phil. It should be addressed to the NWT. Some of us should do the same.

Obviously, the reciprocity would benefit NWT members, too, when visiting other trusts' reserves.

Can anyone update me on the situation with the land for sale next to Cley? I'm concerned that if this is bought by some outfit with shooting rights that this would pose an unacceptable risk to the NWT's flagship reserve and a place that's loved by so many people. Can someone tell me that there's nothing to worry about please?:-C

JD.1: It is already used for the mass slaughter of wildfowl. No worries, then (!).

That’s not ducking the issue, but current practice would, therefore, just be maintained by its sale on those terms.

Whilst not condoning this anaticide, it is surely true that hundreds, if not thousands, of Teal, Wigeon and the rest manage to avoid being shot out the air during the season- and then plop down on the NWT reserve, to restore their normal heart rate.

Personally, I’ve never found the disturbance as persistently annoying and obtrusive as those blasted (and blasting) frisbee shatterers, up on t’Hangs. Could we not start a RSPCCP ?
 

Hirundapus

Well-known member
JD.1: It is already used for the mass slaughter of wildfowl. No worries, then (!).
That’s not ducking the issue, but current practice would, therefore, just be maintained by its sale on those terms.
Whilst not condoning this anaticide, it is surely true that hundreds, if not thousands, of Teal, Wigeon and the rest manage to avoid being shot out the air during the season- and then plop down on the NWT reserve, to restore their normal heart rate.
Personally, I’ve never found the disturbance as persistently annoying and obtrusive as those blasted (and blasting) frisbee shatterers, up on t’Hangs. Could we not start a RSPCCP ?

But no doubt a new and enthusiastic shooting syndicate that has just paid 1.2 million would want to shoot a great deal more than is done now, but why should we allow this? I look forward to hearing about - and contributing to - an NWT appeal very soon. Come on NWT. This is what you do best. Where are you?
 

Bittern2010

Well-known member
Hi,

Just a quick post to say there is a Bewicks Swan on the river by Cow Tower in Norwich. Seen about 10am today. It was still there when I left.

Regards

Steve
 

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