(Not) Servicing older binos in Absam (1 Viewer)

[Ignatius]

My enquiry regarding the cleaning of a 1977/78 Habicht 8x30N with foggy lenses was turned down. The reason given was that the bino is out of warranty (oh really?) and that there are no longer any spare parts available. Binoculars of that vintage, or older, are no longer accepted. Not even for a simple cleaning ...
Tbh I find that a little surprising because Habicht is their longest running line and porros are comparatively simple instruments.
However, I already learned from my watch collecting days that collectors or owners of vintage items are never courted or welcome when first Rolex, and then Omega too, started actively destroying the value of collectors' pieces by not accepting them for service at all, or by swapping in new parts, thereby destroying the originality of the piece.
Needless to say this does not encourage me to purchase a new NL x52. Maybe I should get rid of my older Swaros before they need any kind of attention.

 

[Viraj]

My enquiry regarding the cleaning of a 1977/78 Habicht 8x30N with foggy lenses was turned down. The reason given was that the bino is out of warranty (oh really?) and that there are no longer any spare parts available. Binoculars of that vintage, or older, are no longer accepted. Not even for a simple cleaning ...
Tbh I find that a little surprising because Habicht is their longest running line and porros are comparatively simple instruments.
However, I already learned from my watch collecting days that collectors or owners of vintage items are never courted or welcome when first Rolex, and then Omega too, started actively destroying the value of collectors' pieces by not accepting them for service at all, or by swapping in new parts, thereby destroying the originality of the piece.
Needless to say this does not encourage me to purchase a new NL x52. Maybe I should get rid of my older Swaros before they need any kind of attention.

It is sad to hear but the same thing happened to me. I wanted to send my vintage Habicht 10x40 to fix the issue with the diopter engaging with the focus mechanism. I successfully made the enquiry through their online system and got an email asking me to send them. However, before I sent them I got another email telling me not to send them because they are old and the service cost may exceed the value of the binoculars. The only options left for us are to get it fixed by a reputed repair service or keep them as it is. Right now I am doing the latter 😒😊

 

[Rotherbirder]

No matter how comprehensive the warranty, there is bound to come a time when spares for the older models run out and repairs are no longer feasible - even by such esteemed companies as Rolex, Omega and Swarovski!

RB

 

[Thotmosis]

Same with my Leitz 7x35, they don’t have the parts so they don’t service it anymore.
My “old” 2001 BMW is still serviceable though 🧐

 

[grackle314]

Disappointing as it may be to have the original manufacturer not continue supporting its products forever, there are a lot of factors for why original equipment manufacturer (OEM) support disappears over time. Rarely-used parts inventory are a capital drain; expertise disappears; manufacturing techniques, materials, and standards change.

My 1930 Ford Model A is not supported by Ford Motor Company dealer service departments now either. However, there is a large club network and non-OEM parts supply to keep any of the 5 million produced still running as desired.

My 1950 Jaguar Mark V is not supported by Jaguar any more either. In this case, many parts and tools used an engineering standard eliminated by 1951 so tools and nuts and bolts are scarce. Over the years I have collected enough spares to handle all my needs. And I handle all repairs, there is almost no one left in Southern California with expertise on these pre-war engined cars.

Maybe old binocular repair follows these patterns for old cars. Consider collecting enough spares and developing the expertise as a joyful hobby?

 

[Scott98]

No matter how comprehensive the warranty, there is bound to come a time when spares for the older models run out and repairs are no longer feasible - even by such esteemed companies as Rolex, Omega and Swarovski!

RB

Maybe they don't have any staff members or techs available with knowledge of that era of Habicht and so they don't feel comfortable working on them. In the USA we have a few independent bino servicing guys that specialize in servicing vintage binos. They will clean and/or service older Zeiss and Swaros that are no longer handled by the OEM.

From my experience their prices are lower than the OEM would be for routine stuff like cleaning as well.

 

[Ikeman83]

The pre 83 or pre 85 models (I don't recall) have a skinnier bridge. Apparently they no longer have the skinny bridge components, so if they break your hinge during disassembly they can't replace it, so they can either replace your whole binocular, or not repair the older models. Looks like they took the latter option.

 

[John A Roberts]

Back in early 2022 Swarovski published a list of models no longer serviced, including the pre-1984 Habichts.
See an image and details in post #11 at: Finally got to try a Habicht SL

A copy of the complete listing is attached (I had a quick look just now but couldn't find it on the Swarovski site).


John

 

[Maljunulo]

Same with my Leitz 7x35, they don’t have the parts so they don’t service it anymore.
My “old” 2001 BMW is still serviceable though 🧐

As is our 2001 Subaru Outback, except one rear panel is rusting just above the wheel well.

 

[Ignatius]

Back in early 2022 Swarovski published a list of models no longer serviced, including the pre-1984 Habichts.
See an image and details in post #11 at: Finally got to try a Habicht SL

A copy of the complete listing is attached (I had a quick look just now but couldn't find it on the Swarovski site).


John

Thank you very much for this. The list is possibly no longer available because it has gotten ridiculously long.

 

[Patudo]

It's par for the course I'd say. Zeiss do not service models beyond a certain age, and neither do Leica (as noted in post #4 by Thotmosis). Fortunately old porros should be serviceable by a knowledgeable technician. If Swaro can't recommend one, someone here almost certainly will.

 

[etudiant]

Perhaps this is a market opportunity for computer aided manufacturing to strut its stuff.
The military, whose gear often has half century service lives, have been funding this technology for some time.
The hope is that replacement parts can economically be made as needed, rather than be drawn from an inventory.
I'd think that binoculars and watches would be excellent test cases, fairly simple parts with some exotic processing (not sure if using modern coatings for the repaired parts poses problems).
Has anyone any insight into progress on this front in the commercial market?

 

[pbjosh]

I personally don’t find it outrageous that you cannot get a 46 year old binocular officially serviced. While I wish many more products had the kind of warranties and support that premium binoculars have and that fewer things in life were throw aways / replacement items, at the same time a business is a business and I do not expect to be able to ask the folks who made my bike or car or refrigerator for official service in 46 years time.

 

[pbjosh]

I'd think that binoculars and watches would be excellent test cases, fairly simple parts with some exotic processing (not sure if using modern coatings for the repaired parts poses problems).

I think the collector’s market for watches would be opposed to this. However, it doesn’t bother me. Inflated values for greater levels of originality on expensive old things… meh, it just doesn’t affect my life. I like high quality products but not luxury products. If I have something old and I can keep it useful and working I don’t care if the vintage / manufacture / provenance of parts impact it’s collectability as I have things to use them, not collect them.

 

[dries1]

In the US, many of the older Habichts are sent to Suddarth Optical. Although he informed me that the leatherette covered ones were easier to work on than the green armored samples. Normally there is no need for replacements parts with the porro, unless parts, (lens/prisms are needed).

 

[Patudo]

when first Rolex, and then Omega too, started actively destroying the value of collectors' pieces by not accepting them for service at all, or by swapping in new parts, thereby destroying the originality of the piece.

Fascinating comment. Should watch manufacturers, or indeed binocular manufacturers, feel obliged to pander to collectors - as opposed to keeping their products functioning - or even improving them (cf Swarovski updating older SLC lenses and prisms)?

 

[etudiant]

In the US, many of the older Habichts are sent to Suddarth Optical. Although he informed me that the leatherette covered ones were easier to work on than the green armored samples. Normally there is no need for replacements parts with the porro, unless parts, (lens/prisms are needed).

My CZJ Nobilem Spezial was returned to me after service by Harald Ros along with a surplus prism.
He said that he had no more of them. I sent it to Cory Suddarth, in the hope that he might find it useful.
The presumption of made to order replacement is that such bottlenecks are avoided, but that is easier for mechanical parts than for lumps of custom glass with coatings.

 

[dries1]

My CZJ Nobilem Spezial was returned to me after service by Harald Ros along with a surplus prism.
He said that he had no more of them. I sent it to Cory Suddarth, in the hope that he might find it useful.
The presumption of made to order replacement is that such bottlenecks are avoided, but that is easier for mechanical parts than for lumps of custom glass with coatings.

It is pretty incredible Harold Ros was able to find a prism for the Spezial. You are absolutely right about finding mechanical parts easier than the glass.

 

[Ignatius]

Fascinating comment. Should watch manufacturers, or indeed binocular manufacturers, feel obliged to pander to collectors - as opposed to keeping their products functioning - or even improving them (cf Swarovski updating older SLC lenses and prisms)?

If you call respecting a person's financial investment pandering ...
When a company feels they cannot, for whatever reason, treat a collector's piece with the due respect for it's value, then they should say so outright. Not return it with the collector's value destroyed because the original hands were replaced with new new ones for example (the excuse given at the time being "Aah, the old luminous may become brittle and fall out and then potentially crumbs may fall underneath the face and cause damage in the mechanism" - riiight ... other master watch repairers can indeed service [cla] a watch without replacing the hands). If I want a new watch, state of the art, I will buy it. And certainly not from the maker whose service department just ruined my collector's piece.
Eithe a maker lives off the stable resale value and even collectability of his products, or he doesn't.

 

[Binastro]

EPA Radioactivity in Antiques.

Do not take apart watches with radium dials or hands.

Do not store food in uranium glass.

In Britain there are probably still lead water pipes, I don't know what the rules are here.

I have uranium large filters for aero lenses.

Hassleblad had to stop making their superwide cameras because of small amounts of lead in the solder.

Leica kept several Leica M3s, I think, for Queen Elizabeth II, as she used these cameras.
They made sure they had enough new stock of these old cameras to keep servicing them.

NASA had to get old computer parts from the secondhand market to keep the Shuttles working.

Here old aero lenses were bought back from surplus dealers for £75 each, as new lenses cost £250,000 in the 1980s.

Miele keep parts for quite a long time.

The Vulcan bomber had to get parts from museums etc. in the Falklands war.

The US had to back engineer fuel caps for the Canberra aircraft, as these were worn out.
They made one hundred.

The Soviets back engineered the whole of the Superfortress bomber to make their own version, which was like sci fi to them.

Our idiot government gave Stalin 3 Rolls Royce jet engines.
They copied it as the basis for the Mig 15, which shot down British aircraft.

I have a Binatone clock that has worked continuously for fifty years.

There is a working battery in a British university that has worked for almost two hundred years.

Lenses and prisms can be made if you are willing to pay for them.
Usually now made in China to order or sometimes from stock.

Horace Dall made thousands of small lenses to keep the Leitz microscopes going in the 1940s.
Probably better quality than the original.

Should makers keep parts for decades.
In my opinion, No.

B.