October moths 2009 (1 Viewer)

[Oleander]

Last night was pretty good. Four December Moths, one Chestnut and two that I need help with.

This may be a stupid question, but I have no idea. How do you know if a moth is a micro or a macro? For example, I have no idea if the moths in my pictures below are micro or macro. They are about 1 or 1,5cm long in resting position which is the length of many macros, like The Chestnut.

 

[Surreybirder]

Hi, Dave,
The photos are definitely clearer on your site - though the whacking great © doesn't help!
Welcome to the addictive land of moth ID. After a few years, I'm beginning to get some right.
That's a Blair's shoulder-knot - apart from the unforked 'dash' at the base of the wing, that slightly orangey splodge near the 'kidney mark' is typical.
I think the other is the brick, as Dave said, but it has seen better days.
Ken

 

[Surreybirder]

Last night was pretty good. Four December Moths, one Chestnut and two that I need help with.

This may be a stupid question, but I have no idea. How do you know if a moth is a micro or a macro? For example, I have no idea if the moths in my pictures below are micro or macro. They are about 1 or 1,5cm long in resting position which is the length of many macros, like The Chestnut.

Hi, Ole,
The first is mottled umber. I guess the second is one of the Epirrita species.
I'm not sure how you tell macros from micros - although learning to recognise some of the larger Pyralidae is a good start (with their tendency to have backwards pointing antennae). Rosy marbled is a macro that has caught me out more than once. I guess that, unless you can borrow Harri, you just have to learn them gradually.
Ken

 

[Surreybirder]

Not too bad last night...
large wainscot (different from last night)
barred sallow 2
large yellow underwing 3
satellite 6
feathered thorn 1
m du j 2
Epirrita sp. 1
figure of 8 1
chestnut 5
yellow-line quaker 2
common marbled carpet 1
brick 1
red-green carpet 1
pine carpet 1
double-striple pug 1

I think that's probably the latest pug I've ever had.
Ken

 

[harry eales]

Last night was pretty good. Four December Moths, one Chestnut and two that I need help with.

This may be a stupid question, but I have no idea. How do you know if a moth is a micro or a macro? For example, I have no idea if the moths in my pictures below are micro or macro. They are about 1 or 1,5cm long in resting position which is the length of many macros, like The Chestnut.

Hello Oleander,

It's a frequently asked question. and not one that is easily answered simply. Some 'Micro's are larger than some 'Macro's. Most moths with a wing span on say less than 15mm may but not necessarily fall into the 'Micro' specification. However some 'Pugs' are smaller than this and possibly some of the 'Carpet' moths so there is no clear dividing line based purely on size.

It's always easy to find books on the ID of 'Macro's they're fairly common. Apart from the Pyralid and Plume Moths most books on Micro's are either very hard to find or very expensive. I believe there is a series of books on the Micro's of Europe and there is an awful lot more of them on your side of the North Sea than ours.

Harry

 

[davidtucker]

Hi, Dave,
The photos are definitely clearer on your site - though the whacking great © doesn't help!
Welcome to the addictive land of moth ID. After a few years, I'm beginning to get some right.
That's a Blair's shoulder-knot - apart from the unforked 'dash' at the base of the wing, that slightly orangey splodge near the 'kidney mark' is typical.
I think the other is the brick, as Dave said, but it has seen better days.
Ken

Hi Ken
I will lose the © on the moths album, the reason for the © is that I have had my images "stolen and used in publications in the past" and it "bugs the hell out of me" I gladly give images away.......so why people take them without asking is beyond me (sorry rant over).

Agree about addicition, can't wait to put out the trap tonight....

 

[davidtucker]

Copyright © removed:t:

 

[Nerine]

Hello Oleander,

It's a frequently asked question. and not one that is easily answered simply. Some 'Micro's are larger than some 'Macro's. Most moths with a wing span on say less than 15mm may but not necessarily fall into the 'Micro' specification. However some 'Pugs' are smaller than this and possibly some of the 'Carpet' moths so there is no clear dividing line based purely on size.

It's always easy to find books on the ID of 'Macro's they're fairly common. Apart from the Pyralid and Plume Moths most books on Micro's are either very hard to find or very expensive. I believe there is a series of books on the Micro's of Europe and there is an awful lot more of them on your side of the North Sea than ours.

Harry

Hi Oleander

I think I asked a similar question on micro and macro moths about three years ago when I first started trapping. You do get used to sorting the macros from the micros in the end (I think) with loads of practice and frustration! I’ve only just recently realised I was overlooking Pinion-streaked snout, thinking: "Oh dear, another micro”.

Nerine

 

[Nerine]

Not too bad last night...
large wainscot (different from last night)
barred sallow 2
large yellow underwing 3
satellite 6
feathered thorn 1
m du j 2
Epirrita sp. 1
figure of 8 1
chestnut 5
yellow-line quaker 2
common marbled carpet 1
brick 1
red-green carpet 1
pine carpet 1
double-striple pug 1

I think that's probably the latest pug I've ever had.
Ken

I only had one species from your list the last night I trapped (Wednesday), Ken. (Large Yellow Underwing). I have recently trapped another 6 from your list which leaves 8 species I’m not getting at the moment/have not ever had.

My list for Wednesday night was:

Rusty Dot Pearl 4
Crescent Dart 2
Shuttle-shaped Dart 1
Large Yellow Underwing 2
White-speck 1
Flame Brocade 3
Feathered Ranunculus 13
Angle Shades 1

Heavy rain all last night but I’ll trap tonight as the weather is mild though windy.

Nerine

 

[Surreybirder]

I only had one species from your list the last night I trapped (Wednesday), Ken. (Large Yellow Underwing). I have recently trapped another 6 from your list which leaves 8 species I’m not getting at the moment/have not ever had.

My list for Wednesday night was:

Rusty Dot Pearl 4
Crescent Dart 2
Shuttle-shaped Dart 1
Large Yellow Underwing 2
White-speck 1
Flame Brocade 3
Feathered Ranunculus 13
Angle Shades 1

Heavy rain all last night but I’ll trap tonight as the weather is mild though windy.

Nerine

Well, you've got three there that I've never seen - and shuttle-shaped darts seem to have become very rare here (one this year).
My double-striped pug from last night seems to be exceptionally late - possibley even a third brood.
Ken

 

[Surreybirder]

Copyright © removed:t:

That certainly helps. I'm 95% sure it's the brick.
See what other's think.
Ken

 

[Nerine]

Well, you've got three there that I've never seen - and shuttle-shaped darts seem to have become very rare here (one this year).
My double-striped pug from last night seems to be exceptionally late - possibley even a third brood.
Ken

Interesting. Shuttle-shaped dart in my garden this year has totalled 300 so far - I've caught it regularly since April with the numbers peaking at the end of July and into August.
Double-striped pug is quite common down here in October - I caught my last one on the 18th and it was well marked, as you say - must be a new brood.

Nerine

 

[Surreybirder]

green-brindled crescent was NFY last night. Several bricks.

 

[Oleander]

Last night I got my first Red-line Quaker (if I am correct with the ID :-O).

 

[Tri-Counties Birder]

Last night I got my first Red-line Quaker (if I am correct with the ID :-O).

Looks good to me.

Last night the sky was a little clear for my liking, but I still got 15 moths. These were Yellow-line, and Red-line Quakers, one Chestnut and several Red-green Carpet. But the best was new for me, a Satellite. I did not find it in the trap, I found it flying around my living room (where I open the trap) later in the day!

Good mothing

Sean

 

[harry eales]

Last night I got my first Red-line Quaker (if I am correct with the ID :-O).

Hello Oleander,

You got it right first time, it is a Red-line Quaker.

Harry

 

[Tri-Counties Birder]

Despite a couple of showers last night filling my trap with water, I still got an impressive (well, to me anyway) number for the time of year (28). These included my second Feathered Thorn and Satellites, 13 Yellow-line Quakers and my second Barred Sallow, this one in a better condition to the last. Also my first Epirrita species, that I presume is a November Moth.

Good mothing

Sean

 

[MikeWall]

Sean, it's 'just' an Epirrita, *probably* November Moth but it can't really be presumed to be anything - any more than I guess you'd presume the Brown Shrike you've just seen was one unless someone had had good enough views to establish it one way or another. The Epirrita group is to moths what the Isabelline/Red-backed/Brown Shrike group is to birding, only worse.

As for the earlier discussion re micros/macros, there's no difference. Micros are moths too!

 

[Tri-Counties Birder]

I realise that, but any certainty behind an identification is not important, unless I was submitting the record to, say, my CR. I'm only going on what I can see, and thats a specimen that has the exact colouration of the first illustration in waring and townsend (others are more green). Thats good enough for me for my own records.

Good mothing

Sean

 

[Nerine]

I had a good catch last night - 22 species, 82 moths (33 Large Yellow Underwings).

Oak Rustic was new for my garden.

Double-striped pug (Ken might be interested).

Nerine