On the occasion of the HDX, thinking about it … (2 Viewers)

[Canip]

Zeiss now appears to have a very “logical” array of small and midsize binoculars, when compared to both Leica and Swarovski (and, of course, Nikon), just ignoring for a moment the pocket and the larger x54 and x56 binos.

Think about it …

Terra: 8x32, 10x32
8x42, 10x42

Conquest HDX: 8x32, 10x32
8x42, 10x42

SFL: 8x30, 10x30
8x40, 10x40

Victory SF: 8x32, 10x32
8x42, 10x42

In oversimplification, their prices are:

Terra: around 500
Conquest HDX: around 1000
SFL: around 1500
SF > 2000

I am not sure all lines are equally successful (I have particular doubts about the Terras), but Jan would know und could chip in.
My guess would be: SFL very successful, Conquest moderately successful, SF moderately successful, Terra not successful. Moreover, I suspect the SFL has been eating market share of both the SF and the Conquest.
But again, Jan would know better.

The HDX has a lot for it to become a success in my eyes. Looking at its outside, this is one of the best finished binos I have ever had I hand, better even than my samples of SFL and SF. The haptics of the new armour are a pleasure, the eyepieces are improved against the HD, the mechanics appear solid and sturdy, the focuser is fast, smooth but with a certain resistance that many might like. I will talk about the optics once I had a chance to do a proper comparison (first impression is good).

fwiw Canip

 

[yarrellii]

This is really interesting, thanks for taking your time and putting this info together. I'm really looking forward to a more detailed comparison between the old HD and the new HDX, but your first impressions sound very promising. I've been surprised by your comment about the finish on the HDX. I still haven't seen one "on the flesh", but just going by the pictures my perception was that it seemed not as well made or finished as the HD. I actually really like the finish on the HD, its industrial and minimalist shape/look really appeal to me, more so than the SFL or even the SF. The pure lines of the HD have always reminded me of good German design like the famous designs for Braun by Dieter Rams or the Lamy Safari fountain pen. On pictures I get the impression that the rubber of the HDX is of inferior quality, so it's great to read that it can actually be the other way round.

Looking forward to Jan's and other sellers' experience regarding the figure sales of each member of the Zeiss family. Keep it coming, please

 

[jan van daalen]

Zeiss now appears to have a very “logical” array of small and midsize binoculars, when compared to both Leica and Swarovski (and, of course, Nikon), just ignoring for a moment the pocket and the larger x54 and x56 binos.

Think about it …

Terra: 8x32, 10x32
8x42, 10x42

Conquest HDX: 8x32, 10x32
8x42, 10x42

SFL: 8x30, 10x30
8x40, 10x40

Victory SF: 8x32, 10x32
8x42, 10x42

In oversimplification, their prices are:

Terra: around 500
Conquest HDX: around 1000
SFL: around 1500
SF > 2000

I am not sure all lines are equally successful (I have particular doubts about the Terras), but Jan would know und could chip in.
My guess would be: SFL very successful, Conquest moderately successful, SF moderately successful, Terra not successful. Moreover, I suspect the SFL has been eating market share of both the SF and the Conquest.
But again, Jan would know better.

The HDX has a lot for it to become a success in my eyes. Looking at its outside, this is one of the best finished binos I have ever had I hand, better even than my samples of SFL and SF. The haptics of the new armour are a pleasure, the eyepieces are improved against the HD, the mechanics appear solid and sturdy, the focuser is fast, smooth but with a certain resistance that many might like. I will talk about the optics once I had a chance to do a proper comparison (first impression is good).

fwiw Canip

OK, can't help it..... the market rules.

Before the entrance of the GPO line, the Terra did very well. Right, that was before the GPO saw the market.
The SFL30 kills the 30/32 market and is eating the Conquest 32/ CL30/ Genesis 33/ Meostar 32 and Trinovid 32.
Same goes for the 40. You can add the Kahles 42.
The NLPure line rules. Period. Both in 32 and 42 and now in 50+. No SF/Noctivid.......

FWIW, in my eyes the HD and HDX are optical the same. The eyecups and focussing is improved. The rubber housing is a matter of taste.

Just my 2c.

Jan

 

[Cavendish]

The SFL30 kills the 30/32 market....
Same goes for the 40.

It's very interesting that one model has become so dominant in each segment. I'm curious to know if that's always been the case or whether sales across the big three manufacturers used to be more even across each class?

Re the Zeiss range, I can really see why the 8x40 SFL is more popular than the 8x42 Conquest. For circa 30% extra on the price you get a smaller, lighter binocular with a much bigger FOV and better all-round optical performance.

Ignoring the bigger price difference, I'd say the same argument applies to choosing between the 8x32 Conquest and the 8x40 SFL. They are essentially the same weight but you get a lot more performance from the bigger aperture SFL.

 

[jan van daalen]

It's very interesting that one model has become so dominant in each segment. I'm curious to know if that's always been the case or whether sales across the big three manufacturers used to be more even across each class?

Re the Zeiss range, I can really see why the 8x40 SFL is more popular than the 8x42 Conquest. For circa 30% extra on the price you get a smaller, lighter binocular with a much bigger FOV and better all-round optical performance.

Ignoring the bigger price difference, I'd say the same argument applies to choosing between the 8x32 Conquest and the 8x40 SFL. They are essentially the same weight but you get a lot more performance from the bigger aperture SFL.

I rest my case your honour.....

 

[ReinierB]

Zeiss doesn't have the x-factor for me. I don't know what it is. No charm. No feeling. Just black binoculars with good optics.
I prefer the looks AND the optics of Leica and Swarovski.

 

[Scott98]

Zeiss now appears to have a very “logical” array of small and midsize binoculars, when compared to both Leica and Swarovski (and, of course, Nikon), just ignoring for a moment the pocket and the larger x54 and x56 binos.

It's a nice lineup. I would like to see 7x and also some 50mm's

 

[Scott98]

Zeiss doesn't have the x-factor for me. I don't know what it is. No charm. No feeling.

and no fieldpro, no thumb grooves, no sculpted barrels, no heavy weight

 

[Hermann]

The HDX has a lot for it to become a success in my eyes. Looking at its outside, this is one of the best finished binos I have ever had I hand, better even than my samples of SFL and SF. The haptics of the new armour are a pleasure, the eyepieces are improved against the HD, the mechanics appear solid and sturdy, the focuser is fast, smooth but with a certain resistance that many might like. I will talk about the optics once I had a chance to do a proper comparison (first impression is good).

Sounds good. Even I might be interested in the 8x32 ... Provided the focuser isn't too fast. (I still have a Nikon 8x32 HG-L, and that focuser is definitely too fast for me.)

Hermann

 

[ReinierB]

and no fieldpro, no thumb grooves, no sculpted barrels, no heavy weight

For me fieldpro is a plus. The place of the thumb grooves aren't the best chosen, but are on the right spot at my SLC 8x42 (although the SLC isn't really good looking). The NL feels really good in the hands with the wasp taille and the focuser on the sweet spot (like on the SFL and SF).
And yes, Swarovski is quite heavy. However, Swarovski has the most lightweight 12 power, the NL 12x42 which I like a lot.
Ah well, just a matter of taste. Zeiss SF is really great!

 

[tenex]

The SFL30 kills the 30/32 market and is eating the Conquest 32/ CL30/ Genesis 33/ Meostar 32 and Trinovid 32.
Same goes for the 40. You can add the Kahles 42.

To whatever extent you can tell, are these sales of SFL to new buyers, or trade-ins of bulkier models? And why do you suppose such dominance isn't evident on this forum, with either SFL or NL? Instead many here seem to want something that isn't on offer.

 

[jan van daalen]

To whatever extent you can tell, are these sales of SFL to new buyers, or trade-ins of bulkier models? And why do you suppose such dominance isn't evident on this forum, with either SFL or NL? Instead many here seem to want something that isn't on offer.

This is an Birders forum while the majority of our customers is from a different origine. That could be a reason.
Fact is, the only targetgroup that hops from bin to bin is the birder. They trade in for the latest and greatest.
Other targetgroups buy (A-brand by dominance) and keep it and this is where the SFL scores.
SFL dominates in the <1.750,00 euro lightweight class.
In the >area it is NLPure and ELSV.

Just my 2c and nothing more....

 

[MiddleRiver]

To whatever extent you can tell, are these sales of SFL to new buyers, or trade-ins of bulkier models? And why do you suppose such dominance isn't evident on this forum, with either SFL or NL? Instead many here seem to want something that isn't on offer.

This is a forum full of OCD optics enthusiasts. Normal people aren’t anywhere as discriminating in my experience. You give most people a Conquest or other good mid range bin and they are good-to-go birding/hunting/mammal-watching…

 

[forent]

(...) Fact is, the only targetgroup that hops from bin to bin is the birder. They trade in for the latest and greatest. (...)

(Don't want to be a smart a$$, just my personal impressions)

Not “the birder” in general, but “some birders”, i.e. the gear heads among them. In my environment (members of the German Association for Nature Conservation), people buy binoculars or spotting scopes in general ONCE - as good as their wallet will allow - and then use them for decades.
Of course, you will never see these people in your (own or preferred) store again, but you will see the others regularly, there and here... ;-)

 

[MiddleRiver]

(Don't want to be a smart a$$, just my personal impressions)

Not “the birder” in general, but “some birders”, i.e. the gear heads among them. In my environment (members of the German Association for Nature Conservation), people buy binoculars or spotting scopes in general ONCE - as good as their wallet will allow - and then use them for decades.
Of course, you will never see these people in your (own or preferred) store again, but you will see the others regularly, there and here... ;-)

I agree. If I were to ask someone on a bird walk in-my-neck-of-the-woods, whether they see too much CA or a blue ring at periphery, or glare or great micro-contrast, or whether the FOV is not too narrow, I'm certain 99% would look at me puzzled and not have a clue. That's not to say that given two bins to try they would not prefer one over the other. But the language and perception of IQ traits and flaws, is unique to those that are passionate about the optics themselves - as opposed to the subjects being viewed through them.

 

[jan van daalen]

(Don't want to be a smart a$$, just my personal impressions)

Not “the birder” in general, but “some birders”, i.e. the gear heads among them. In my environment (members of the German Association for Nature Conservation), people buy binoculars or spotting scopes in general ONCE - as good as their wallet will allow - and then use them for decades.
Of course, you will never see these people in your (own or preferred) store again, but you will see the others regularly, there and here... ;-)

What can I say other than the market rules.

 

[Scott98]

I agree. If I were to ask someone on a bird walk in-my-neck-of-the-woods, whether they see too much CA or a blue ring at periphery, or glare or great micro-contrast, or whether the FOV is not too narrow, I'm certain 99% would look at me puzzled and not have a clue. That's not to say that given two bins to try they would not prefer one over the other. But the language and perception of IQ traits and flaws, is unique to those that are passionate about the optics themselves - as opposed to the subjects being viewed through them.

So true - I've tried to ask about magnfication - are those 10x or 8x - and birders look at me incredulously. Most don't even think about what magnification it is - they thought about it at the shop when they bought them and that's it.

Astronomers are another optics-obsessed group, there are plenty of us with collections of dozens of binoculars

 

[roweraay]

I personally think the new HDX will have better assembly and fit-and-finish quality, than the HDs that preceded it. And even better than the much more expensive SFs.

Anybody thinking that the folks in Japan (where the HDX is now assembled) are less-than-perfect in quality-checks and assembly quality, have not had much of an exposure to Japanese products over the past several decades.

In my line of work, I travel to multiple locations across the country, and worldwide, and when picking up a rental car at an airport lot, whether one examines the gap-tolerances of a really cheap Japanese assembled Toyota Yaris, or whether we are talking about a high-end Japanese assembled Toyota Landcruiser, the tight gap tolerances of all such products are just mind-blowing, especially notable in the el-cheapo Yaris, where one would expect the quality to slide a bit, due to the low pricepoint.

I can sense a similar quality and tight gap-tolerances in my Sindelfingen-assembled 2022 Mercedes E450 All-Terrain wagon.

Interestingly, in the Honda lineup, they assembled the previous generation Honda Civic Type-R in the UK (Swindon plant?). But for this generation, they switched the assembly of the Type-R, back to Japan. Every unit that now gets sold, exudes the results from that shift, in a hugely positive way.....impreccable fit-and-finish, and the tightest of assembly tolerances. The Japanese Type-Rs are as tight as a drum, and you can see the care in the tightness of its assembly.

The SFL was the first recent foray of Zeiss into Japanese assembly, and everything I hear about the SFL (I am not talking about aesthetics here), says every single unit is meticulously assembled, with none of the sloppiness that one finds in even premium efforts like the SF.

I expect the HDX to follow a similar pattern of great assembly quality.

 

[roweraay]

FWIW, in my eyes the HD and HDX are optical the same. The eyecups and focussing is improved. The rubber housing is a matter of taste.

The HDX housing is now made of Magnesium alloy, from the prior Aluminum/Aluminium.

I am curious about the 15x56 HDX, and what kind of optical improvements may have taken place in those, even though the AFOV of the device is still 69 degrees. They are slated to arrive by early 2025.

 

[forent]

(...) whether one examines the gap-tolerances of a really cheap Japanese assembled Toyota Yaris, or whether we are talking about a high-end Japanese assembled Toyota Landcruiser, the tight gap tolerances of all such products are just mind-blowing, (...)
I can sense a similar quality and tight gap-tolerances in my Sindelfingen-assembled 2022 Mercedes E450 All-Terrain wagon. (...)

[OFF-TOPIC]
A Renault dealer once said to me with a wink: ‘German car manufacturers worry about the gap tolerances of the bodywork, the French worry about those of the engine!’
[/off-topic]