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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CAU" data-source="post: 1709895" data-attributes="member: 55324">Though some Dutch observers seem to be slightly sceptical, to me there is no doubt that the bird is a very straightforward OTD. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the length of the primary projection either (not too long for OTD, but too short for most ETD). AFAIK the pp is anyway on average proportionally slightly longer on meena than on orientalis. Regarding the pattern of T6, note that the black extends slightly onto the outer web. After looking at a lot of photos on the net, it would seem that on Eurasian Turtle Dove the black ends at least usually exacly at the shaft, like on this one (photo by Magnus, shows also a meena for comparison):<a href="http://picasaweb.google.se/stenura/DovesCuckosSandgrousesWoodpeckers#5256715533996647090" target="_blank">http://picasaweb.google.se/stenura/DovesCuckosSandgrousesWoodpeckers#5256715533996647090</a></blockquote>