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Message: <blockquote data-quote="John M Robinson" data-source="post: 1428846" data-attributes="member: 61814">Fire,I get you in regards to the social and political implications of allowing the Chinese to completely dominate the world economy with their record on human rights, consumer safety, worker safety and ecological concerns, and those are valid issues for each of us to consider, but from a purely pragmatic standpoint, it seems like the Chinese ED binoculars are the real deal. We shouldn't bury our collective heads in the sand the way we did when the first Toyota's and Datsuns showed up on our shore. There are too many people who's opinion I have learned to trust, on this forum and another optics forum I frequent, that sing loud praises on these new bins. I have read enough threads going back years to see that Dennis does get quite enthusiastic with his reviews of his latest and greatest bin, but to be fair, those bins really are that good, and he is very knowledgable about optics. Who here can argue with his opinion of the 8x32 SE, or at the time the 7x42BN? But there are other, very level headed guys who are saying the same things about these Chinese bins. I will definitely buy a pair just to see.The point is you may not have to pay $1,400.00 for that one great, do-it-all bin, maybe you can get that same function for less than $400.00. When I joined this forum about 15 months ago to educate myself on this stuff, I quickly learned that the question wasn't which of the "alphas" was best, that is clearly an "eye of the beholder" thing, no, the more interesting question was, "which bin was that best buy option? There were a lot of good options at 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of the alphas that were well built, good optics and supported by good warranties. We still discuss the Meoptas, Kowas, Vortex, Swift, heck there is a whole list of them above, but I have two questions;1) Have these Chinese EDs made that question moot? Are they better than all of those second tier bins regardless of cost, to the point that when you factor in their price, it's a no brainer? We have been discussing the pressure these bins are putting on the Alphas, how would you like to be Bushnell, Leupold or Minox?2) Are these bins really as good as the Alpha's regardless of price? I think Dennis is the only one making that argument, but others like Steve and Kevin make the case that they are 99% as good, which to me is equal since, even among the top four there must be at least a 1% difference. Regardless, from all of the glowing reports, they are clearly a number of steps up from "midrange" glass. Really the only remaining question is, how good will their warranty and product stand up over the test of time? Only time will tell, but for one fifth the cost it sure seems like a bet worth taking.John</blockquote>

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