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Oysterctcher (1 Viewer)

Colin Hose

Well-known member
Took this photo of an Oystercatcher in Tenerife, the back seems a lot greyer, is this because of the sunlight, maybe an immature or a sub-species or even an American Oystercatcher, what do you think?
 

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alanc

Just an earthbound misfit
England
Hi Colin

That looks very much like a juv American Oystercatcher. Not sure about the range though. Are they regular vagrants to the Canaries? Others on this site will be more helpful than me.

best wishes
alan
 

THE_FERN

Well-known member
Well on first glance looks reasonable for immature American (adult would have yellow eye), although a young bird of that species might be expected to have brownish scalloping. I don't know if Eurasian can show such a contrast with the back
 

RafaelMatias

Unknown member
Portugal
Hi Colin

That looks very much like a juv American Oystercatcher. Not sure about the range though. Are they regular vagrants to the Canaries? Others on this site will be more helpful than me.

best wishes
alan

There are no Western Palearctic records of American afaik.

I suppose you have no more photos of this bird? Any in flight or open wing shots, even blurred ones?
Among other features, European has a white back (shows as a white wedge), which is dark on American.
 

Brian J Small

Well-known member
My experience of imm American Oystercatchers is that they have a redder bill and more black on upper mandible than Eurasian (and this bird).

I am sure those with more experience will confirm or not...

B
 

Colin Hose

Well-known member
Apologies

There are no Western Palearctic records of American afaik.

I suppose you have no more photos of this bird? Any in flight or open wing shots, even blurred ones?
Among other features, European has a white back (shows as a white wedge), which is dark on American.

Sorry Rafael this is the only shot I got, it was on the golf course in Golf del Sur.
 

Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
I don't know if Eurasian can show such a contrast with the back

I can’t comment on American Oystercatcher but I think immaturity and/or sunbleaching/wear can result in quite contrasty plumage in Eurasian Oystercatcher - although the OP looks neither freshly juvenile nor particularly worn in plumage the dark irides indicate 1cy - so eye colour difference isn’t helpful in this case to separate sp either:
(American
https://abacobirds.com/tag/american-eurasian-oystercatcher-difference/)


In terms of brown v black upperparts:

https://africanbirdclub.org/afbid/search/birddetails/species/478/22287

2cy

https://africanbirdclub.org/afbid/search/birddetails/species/478/36431

1cy (note dark eye)
https://www.birdguides.com/gallery/birds/haematopus-ostralegus/1042575/

adult

https://www.birdguides.com/gallery/birds/haematopus-ostralegus/551188/

Article here from BB which may be of interest which highlights the confusion potential with juveniles and immatures of both of these species.

https://britishbirds.co.uk/sites/default/files/pdf-store/V90_N12_P569_570_A144.pdf

I think perhaps a Siberian longipes ending up on the Canaries (perhaps from Italian breeders) would be marginally less unlikely than an American which is what I think the OP looks like but a sharper view if the bill would be useful
http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealData/gallery_show.asp?galleryid=54910

Avibase (oddly?) has both Portugal and Madeira as location for ‘rare/accidental’ records for Siberian so not such a great leap to Canaries?
https://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/species.jsp?lang=EN&avibaseid=280BC5B8293D86E6&sec=map
 
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Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
I think perhaps a Siberian longipes ending up on the Canaries would be ...less unlikely than an American and which is what I think the OP looks like but a sharper view if the bill would be useful
http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/RealData/gallery_show.asp?galleryid=54910

Avibase (oddly?) has both Portugal and Madeira as location for ‘rare/accidental’ records for Siberian so not such a great leap to Canaries?
https://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/species.jsp?lang=EN&avibaseid=280BC5B8293D86E6&sec=map

Dropping back into this, because I think the sub species longipes is a good possibility here and should be ruled out before considering ‘American’, there’s a small breeding population in SW Africa too apparently with Westward expanding small populations in the Mediterranean/Adriatic.

The nasal grove looks long to me - it should range anything over 0.5 ratio to bill length - (you might be able to do a better crop Colin because it looks as if it has food or dirt at the tip of the bill making it longer than it is!) -

Hopefully you might get some more input here from some of the more experienced members of the Forum.
 

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THE_FERN

Well-known member
no opinions or feedback on this then?

My interpretation is that nasal grove is more or less exactly half bill length. I don't think it's American on balance of probability but I've not come across a clear character which rules it out. I wasn't able to judge nasal grove on ebird pics of American
 

Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
My interpretation is that nasal grove is more or less exactly half bill length. I don't think it's American on balance of probability but I've not come across a clear character which rules it out. I wasn't able to judge nasal grove on ebird pics of American

Hi ‘Fern’

I’m relieved I’ve not been talking to myself here;)

However, I have been referring to my belief this could be a sub species/race of Eurasian Oystercatcher called H.o. longipes (one on Scilly a while back) not an American so I think you misunderstood my post?.

This race, if you look at the rarebirdalert link I posted up thread is very like an American Oystercatcher but the latter being extremely unlikely.

A main criteria for separating these 2 races of Eurasian Oystercatcher is the length of the nasal groove. For nominate Eurasian the ratio is 0.5 and under, for Siberian race, it’s 0.5 and over.

I personally would not even consider a first for the Western Palearctic (American Oystercatcher) unless this race of European Oystercatcher could first be ruled out.
 

THE_FERN

Well-known member
Hi ‘Fern’

I’m relieved I’ve not been talking to myself here;)

However, I have been referring to my belief this could be a sub species/race of Eurasian Oystercatcher called H.o. longipes (one on Scilly a while back) not an American so I think you misunderstood my post?.

This race, if you look at the rarebirdalert link I posted up thread is very like an American Oystercatcher but the latter being extremely unlikely.

A main criteria for separating these 2 races of Eurasian Oystercatcher is the length of the nasal groove. For nominate Eurasian the ratio is 0.5 and under, for Siberian race, it’s 0.5 and over.

I personally would not even consider a first for the Western Palearctic (American Oystercatcher) unless this race of European Oystercatcher could first be ruled out.

No, no misunderstanding. I was just clarifying my view. Given (my perception of) nasal grove length, I can't personally say this is the siberian ssp. Neither can I definitively rule out American (which I've seen many times) although I realise this is less likely. Fwiw, my immediate impression was an unusual eurasian.
 

Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
No, no misunderstanding. I was just clarifying my view. Given (my perception of) nasal grove length, I can't personally say this is the siberian ssp. Neither can I definitively rule out American (which I've seen many times) although I realise this is less likely. Fwiw, my immediate impression was an unusual eurasian.

I think ‘unusual’ European is a good starting point ;)

hopefully, someone that does have experience of these Italian and Portugese populations of longipes or of the Eastern populations of this race might offer their input - I find it hard to believe no one has come across these before but perhaps there’s not the interest - the Scillies bird didn’t attract much excitement either - to most people it was just a pale race of Oystercatcher so what!

In the meantime Colin, it would be good to have a clearer crop of the bill
 

RafaelMatias

Unknown member
Portugal
someone that does have experience of these Italian and Portugese populations of longipes or of the Eastern populations of this race might offer their input -

What Portuguese populations are you referring to? What's the reference to this? Unless it's something very recent, only the nominal subspecies has been recorded in Portugal.
 

Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
What Portuguese populations are you referring to? What's the reference to this? Unless it's something very recent, only the nominal subspecies has been recorded in Portugal.

Sorry Raphael, as you can see on #7 of this thread, I meant ‘incidental’ ‘records’ of course not ‘populations in reference to Portugal - I discovered in reading earlier that Avibase record longipes as ‘rare/accidental’ for Portugal and Madeira - i posted a link for this earlier - perhaps this source is incorrect?

https://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/species.jsp?lang=EN&avibaseid=280BC5B8293D86E6&sec=map

Also, this paper on the taxonomy of Italian birds (which are a ‘population’ here with discussion of westerly expansian - I posted this link also earlier

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00063650209461282

It doesn’t matter really, apparently no one is interested in my opinion here that this could be a longipes Oystercatcher so it’s all just an echo chamber :-O
 
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RafaelMatias

Unknown member
Portugal
Oh, I see. But still, even as vagrants, I know of no records of such birds. Afaik only the nominal ssp has ever been recorded at least on the Portuguese mainland (I'm reasonably sure about Madeira as well).
 

Colin Hose

Well-known member
Oystercatcher

Took this photo of an Oystercatcher in Tenerife, the back seems a lot greyer, is this because of the sunlight, maybe an immature or a sub-species or even an American Oystercatcher, what do you think?

This is the best I can do with the cropping, hope this helps,
Regards
 

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