• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    Register for an account to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia

Parrots (1 Viewer)

Acanthis

Well-known member
The problem is that I base on his work to make the subfamily divisions in my classification of birds and I don't know if the names I'm using are available or not 🤨🙄
I'm no expert in this but surely there needs to be a comprehensive list of names and sources somewhere, to help 'winnow out the wheat from the chaff'.
 

Acanthis

Well-known member
Isn't the problem that Bock set out to create such a comprensive list of names but ended up adding to the chaff?
Interesting read! I've just downloaded a copy.

Beyond the issues with Wolters post 1960, are there any other major issues a novice like myself needs to be aware of?
 
Last edited:

albertonykus

Well-known member
Martini, D., N. Dussex, B.C. Robertson, N.J. Gemmell, and M. Knapp (2021)
Evolution of the world’s only alpine parrot – genomic adaptation or phenotypic plasticity, behaviour and ecology?
Molecular Ecology (advance online publication)
doi: 10.1111/mec.15978

Climate warming, in particular in island environments, where opportunities for species to disperse are limited, may become a serious threat to cold adapted alpine species. In order to understand how alpine species may respond to a warming world, we need to understand the drivers that have shaped their habitat specialisation and the evolutionary adaptations that allow them to utilize alpine habitats.

The endemic, endangered New Zealand kea (Nestor notabilis) is considered the only alpine parrot in the world. As a species commonly found in the alpine zone it may be highly susceptible to climate warming. But is it a true alpine specialist? Is its evolution driven by adaptation to the alpine zone or is the kea an open habitat generalist that simply uses the alpine zone to – for example – avoid lower lying anthropogenic landscapes? We use whole genome data of the kea and its close, forest adapted sister species, the kākā (N. meridionalis) to reconstruct the evolutionary history of both species and identify the functional genomic differences that underlie their habitat specialisations.

Our analyses do not identify major functional genomic differences between kea and kākā in pathways associated with high-altitude. Rather, we find evidence that selective pressures on adaptations commonly found in alpine species are present in both Nestor species, suggesting that selection for alpine adaptations has not driven their divergence. Strongly divergent demographic responses to past climate warming between the species nevertheless highlight potential future threats to kea survival in a warming world.
 

Peter Kovalik

Well-known member
Slovakia
Dominique L. Hellmich, Andre B. S. Saidenberg, and Timothy F. Wright. 2021. Genetic, but not behavioral, evidence supports the distinctiveness of the Mealy Amazon Parrot in the Brazilian Atlantic Forest. Diversity. published 17 June.
https://doi.org/10.3390/d13060273, open access

Abstract:
The presence of unidentified cryptic species within a species complex can obscure demographic trends of vulnerable species, impacting potential species conservation and management decisions. Previous work identified a taxonomic split between Central and South American populations of the mealy amazon (Amazona farinosa) that subsequently resulted in the elevation of these two populations to full species status (Amazona guatemalae and A. farinosa, respectively). In that study, however, a third, geographically disjunct population from the Brazilian Atlantic Forest was insufficiently sampled, limiting the ability of researchers to fully evaluate its genetic distinctiveness. Given that significant levels of biodiversity and endemism are found in this region, we aimed to use genetic and behavioral data to determine if the Atlantic Forest population of A. f. farinosa represents a third cryptic species within the complex. We sequenced 6 genes (4 mitochondrial and 2 nuclear introns) from the Atlantic Forest population of A. f. farinosa to measure the genetic relationships between this population and all other recognized species and subspecies of the mealy amazon. In addition, we use spectrographic cross-correlation and an analysis of 29 acoustic parameters to determine whether the taxa diverge in their learned contact call structure and if the degree of vocal differentiation correlates to genetic structure. We found that the Atlantic Forest population of A. f. farinosa was genetically distinct from that of the greater Amazon basin, but the degree of differentiation was less than that separating the Central and South American taxa. Acoustic analysis revealed substantial variation in contact call structure within each clade. This variation created substantial overlap in acoustic space between the clades. In all, the degree of call divergence between clades did not correspond to the degree of genetic divergence between the same clades. The results suggest that in taxa with substantial geographic variation in learned calls, such as the mealy amazon, vocalizations may not be a useful tool in the identification of cryptic species that are lifelong vocal learners. While these results do not support the elevation of the Brazilian Atlantic Forest population of the mealy amazon to full species status, given current trends of habitat loss in the Atlantic Forest as well as the imperiled status of large parrot species globally, we argue that this population nonetheless warrants special conservation and management consideration as a pool of unique genetic diversity within the southern mealy amazon species.
 

albertonykus

Well-known member
Dussex, N., T. van der Valk, H.E. Morales, C.W. Wheat, D. Díez-del-Molino, J. von Seth, Y. Foster, V.E. Kutschera, K. Guschanski, A. Rhie, A.M. Phillippy, J. Korlach, K. Howe, W. Chow, S. Pelan, J.D.M. Damas, H.A. Lewin, A.R. Hastie, G. Formenti, O. Fedrigo, J. Guhlin, T.W.R. Harrop, M.F. Le Lec, P.K. Dearden, L. Haggerty, F.J. Martin, V. Kodali, F. Thibaud-Nissen, D. Iorns, M. Knapp, N.J. Gemmell, F. Robertson, R. Moorhouse, A. Digby, D. Eason, D. Vercoe, J. Howard, E.D. Jarvis, B.C. Robertson, and L. Dalén (2021)
Population genomics of the critically endangered kākāpō
Cell Genomics (advance online publication)
doi: 10.1016/j.xgen.2021.100002

The kākāpō is a flightless parrot endemic to New Zealand. Once common in the archipelago, only 201 individuals remain today, most of them descending from an isolated island population. We report the first genome-wide analyses of the species, including a high-quality genome assembly for kākāpō, one of the first chromosome-level reference genomes sequenced by the Vertebrate Genomes Project (VGP). We also sequenced and analyzed 35 modern genomes from the sole surviving island population and 14 genomes from the extinct mainland population. While theory suggests that such a small population is likely to have accumulated deleterious mutations through genetic drift, our analyses on the impact of the long-term small population size in kākāpō indicate that present-day island kākāpō have a reduced number of harmful mutations compared to mainland individuals. We hypothesize that this reduced mutational load is due to the island population having been subjected to a combination of genetic drift and purging of deleterious mutations, through increased inbreeding and purifying selection, since its isolation from the mainland ∼10,000 years ago. Our results provide evidence that small populations can survive even when isolated for hundreds of generations. This work provides key insights into kākāpō breeding and recovery and more generally into the application of genetic tools in conservation efforts for endangered species.
 

Casliber

Member
Isolate Psittacella in its own family, Psittacellidae.

Curious, they also find Mascarinus paraphyletic with Coracopsis. And, I wonder if we couldn't combine Alisterus, Aprosmictus and Polytelis in one: Polytelis.
(much belated reply) - Have pondered this (unifying Alisterus, Aprosmictus and Polytelis), in the face of naturally occurring hybrids between Australian king parrot and red-winged parrot - surely this means they are better regarded as congeneric?

A hybrid of Australian king-parrot 'Alisterus scapularis' and red-winged parrot 'Aprosmictus erythropterus' at bell

Also apparently fertile hybrids in captivity.
 

Jim LeNomenclatoriste

Taxonomy and zoological nomenclature
France

l_raty

laurent raty
But I resurrected Spathopterus for an ex-Polytelis
Polytelis swainsonii (Desmarest) (a new name for barrabandii Swainson, the type of Polytelis Wagler) seems to be sister to P. anthopeplus in BOLD ID trees (see attached file), which would indeed make resurrecting Spathopterus (for alexandrae; rather than Sindelia for anthopeplus) the way to go if you want to keep the genera split. But this is based on sequences that are unpublished and not publicly accessible.

There are no published genetic data at all for swainsonii so far as I can find. The basal position of this species in the Polytelis-Alisterus-Aprosmictus group in the tree I posted in #247 above is arbitrary -- the species was added to the tree a posteriori based on traditional taxonomy, in a basal position because the authors had no clue to include it in one of the subgroups they had identified.

For the relationships within the rest of the group (i.a., monophyly of Aprosmictus and Alisterus), I would trust the supermatrix analysis by Provost et al 2018 (abstract & suppl.mat.; pdf) much more than any supertree.
 

Attachments

  • Polytelis alexandrae - BOLD finaltree.pdf
    7.6 KB · Views: 11

Casliber

Member
The red-winged parrot and Australian King Parrot have produced fertile hybrids in captivity and also hybrid in the wild where their ranges meet. Gould even named one here - does this suggest to anyone that treating them as congeneric might make more sense than accepting the idea of intergeneric hybridization? (Hence a more broadly defined Aprosmictus with subgenera)
 

njlarsen

Gallery Moderator
Opus Editor
Supporter
Barbados
With the risk of comparing apples to oranges, intergeneric hybrids have been found elsewhere such as in geese. I think there should be other arguments before changing the genus of one of these.

Niels
 

Casliber

Member
With the risk of comparing apples to oranges, intergeneric hybrids have been found elsewhere such as in geese. I think there should be other arguments before changing the genus of one of these.

Niels
Is not comparing apples to oranges - presence or absence, or broadness or narrowness of hybrid zones are a key concept in definition of species vs subspecies. Numerous lumps and splits have been made on findings such as these. The example I cite is the only intergeneric hybrid of an Australian species that I am area of, and one that results in spontaneous natural hybrids, and fertile hybrids in aviculture (I would think) is a stronger indicator of possible congenericness rather than one that required artificial insemination under controlled conditions such as with geese here
 

andrew147

Well-known member
Is not comparing apples to oranges - presence or absence, or broadness or narrowness of hybrid zones are a key concept in definition of species vs subspecies. Numerous lumps and splits have been made on findings such as these. The example I cite is the only intergeneric hybrid of an Australian species that I am area of, and one that results in spontaneous natural hybrids, and fertile hybrids in aviculture (I would think) is a stronger indicator of possible congenericness rather than one that required artificial insemination under controlled conditions such as with geese here
In Australia, Satin and Regent Bowerbirds are also known to hybridise in the wild.

Intergeneric hybrids in nature are well documented amongst birds-of-paradise, ducks, grouse and hummingbirds.
 

Mysticete

Well-known member
United States
isn't there a known example of a guineafowl and a Turkey hybridizing? I know there are examples in mammals of members of different subfamilies hybridizing (Wolpins, which are hybrids of false killer whales and bottlenose dolphins).

The physical inability to breed and bear offspring with another species is a derived trait. It shouldn't be assumed to automatically evolve if other aspects of biology prevent gene flow between different populations/species/genera/etc.
 

njlarsen

Gallery Moderator
Opus Editor
Supporter
Barbados
Is not comparing apples to oranges - presence or absence, or broadness or narrowness of hybrid zones are a key concept in definition of species vs subspecies. Numerous lumps and splits have been made on findings such as these. The example I cite is the only intergeneric hybrid of an Australian species that I am area of, and one that results in spontaneous natural hybrids, and fertile hybrids in aviculture (I would think) is a stronger indicator of possible congenericness rather than one that required artificial insemination under controlled conditions such as with geese here
Sorry if I was not clear: my reference to apples and oranges was comparing parrots with geese.
The majority of the hybrids I have seen photos of/seen in real life between for example Anser and Branta geese have been encountered in the wild, and I have no reason to suspect they did not originate in the wild.

Niels
 

Casliber

Member
Looks like intergeneric hybrids are more common than I thought (although alot of the Bird of Pardise ones seem vague/poorly documented, which is not surprising given their location) - just started going down the google scholar plughole....lots of reading.
 
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia

Users who are viewing this thread

Top