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Petition: Ban driven grouse shooting (1 Viewer)

Dave Ball

Well-known member
I see Mark Avery has an article in the i today headlined 'It's only a sport if the grouse are armed too'.

Hmmh. Drone grouse equipped with suitable air-to-ground missiles? Could make entertaining television ;)
 

Dave Ball

Well-known member
Hmmh. Drone grouse equipped with suitable air-to-ground missiles? Could make entertaining television ;)

In the total absence of any suitable hardware (as far as I'm aware), this wasn't a practicable suggestion, let alone that I'd seriously advocate strafing shooters in real life (just in case any pro-blood sports nutters get the wrong idea - sometimes you have to be careful on this forum :-C).

...however, it has since occurred to me that it might make a cracking video game, with quite a few potential levels involving all sorts of persecuted wildlife wreaking revenge.
 

Mike C

Emeritus President at Burnage Rugby Club
I thoroughly disapprove of hunting in all its forms but IMHuO this would mean the end of the uplands of Great Britain as we currently know them.
The "grouse moors" beloved of many a breeding birds exist because the shooting interests keep them that way.
Is that a positive or negative, I'm not sure.
 

DMW

Well-known member
I thoroughly disapprove of hunting in all its forms but IMHuO this would mean the end of the uplands of Great Britain as we currently know them.
The "grouse moors" beloved of many a breeding birds exist because the shooting interests keep them that way.
Is that a positive or negative, I'm not sure.

I'm certainly no expert, but I was under the impression that most of Britain's upland areas (and in particular, those areas managed for Red Grouse), are extremely impoverished in terms of biodiversity as a result of current land management practices (i.e. burning and overgrazing by sheep / Red Deer). Which species do you see as potentially negatively affected by a change in land management (apart, obviously, from grouse!)?
 

Andy Hurley

All nations have the right to govern themselves
Opus Editor
Supporter
Scotland
I thoroughly disapprove of hunting in all its forms but IMHuO this would mean the end of the uplands of Great Britain as we currently know them.
The "grouse moors" beloved of many a breeding birds exist because the shooting interests keep them that way.
Is that a positive or negative, I'm not sure.

This is an old argument used in Africa a lot. I suppose, in the "old days" there were no ecotourists with bird and wildlife photographers, so hunters kept the populations of their target species healthy because the game farm owners make money by insuring that they are present.

Alternatively, grouse moors could be converted to National Park or RSPB bird sanctuary status where they can be protected and other species that are currently being targeted by owners/gamekeepers can get a chance at reestablishing proper natural population levels and not just Grouse/Pheasant.
 

Mike C

Emeritus President at Burnage Rugby Club
Off the top of my head, I seem to recall Golden Plover, Merlin, Curlew, Meadow Pipit and Hen Harrier (if only they'd leave them alone !!!!!!) preferring man made upland heath.

If the RSPB would throw resources at moorlands and keep them as they are (there'd be lots of unemployed gamekeepers to sign on) that would work perfectly.

However, the RSPB........
 

Andy Hurley

All nations have the right to govern themselves
Opus Editor
Supporter
Scotland
It takes a thief to catch a thief. Ex poachers make good wardens because they know the tricks. The gamekeepers would make excellent wardens, plus they know "their" moors inside out. It's just a matter of wanting it.
 

Farnboro John

Well-known member
Signed. If nothing else a big petition will get the b******s on the run realising the threat is growing. It might just frighten them into conforming with the law. Its worth a try anyway, seeing as the Opposition party is about to make itself as unelectable as it was under Michael Foot.

John
 

Simon Wates

Well-known member
Signed (I'm a UK citizen even though I live down here - I treasure my early days in the UK on the Pennines in Red Grouse paradise).

I agreee that the Grouse shooting community "managers" could be the best option for caring for these habitats - if only they wanted to conserve including the predators. Nowadays in many places in the world, wider areas are managed by the hunting community successfully and the top of the food chain is looked after too - as its basics to know that this is imperative to health in prey ppulations.

What really gets me is that the "top of the pile" (aka posh bu++ers) look so damned dumb denying to accept that Hen Harriers etc are good for grouse. Its stale tradition and it stinks. They seem to want a sterile environment full of grouse - which is an impossiblity. The grouse moor landowners should be stalwart supporters of a healthy ecosystem. They have had many years to realise this and now there is no excuse - so yes ban the grouse shooting!

I guarantee that if ever one day raptors on grouse moors return to healthy numbers it won't be too long before Red Grouse increase too - at least in areas where they are decreasing.
 

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
(there'd be lots of unemployed gamekeepers to sign on) that would work perfectly.

However, the RSPB........

It takes a thief to catch a thief. Ex poachers make good wardens because they know the tricks. The gamekeepers would make excellent wardens, plus they know "their" moors inside out. It's just a matter of wanting it.
Yep - most gamekeepers are likely to be very good as conservationists. They only kill raptors because Lord Sewer or whoever instructs them to, on pain of dismissal without references if they don't.
 

Coronatus

Well-known member
<This would mean the end of the uplands of Great Britain as we currently know them.
The "grouse moors" beloved of many a breeding birds exist because the shooting interests keep them that way.>
Not so. There are many areas of upland/moor where no grouse shooting takes place. Think Wales, think Hebrides. The shooters may 'manage' their patch but the birds that use them were there first.
In microcosm, there is no grouse shooting on the Isle of Man although Grouse are present. We still have Golden Plover, Merlin, etc., in good numbers. Last week I watched two Hen Harrier fledgelings skydance with the parent birds. Our HHs have declined for some reason but we see them most days when out in the hills.
 

King Edward

Well-known member
Yep - most gamekeepers are likely to be very good as conservationists. They only kill raptors because Lord Sewer or whoever instructs them to, on pain of dismissal without references if they don't.
It's not just raptors though is it. It's all the legal persecution of foxes, stoats, weasels and corvids, plus the trees and shrubs which are a vital part of a biodiverse upland environment. If the habitat can only be maintained through regular rotational burning, then it's simply not sustainable.
 

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
It's not just raptors though is it. It's all the legal persecution of foxes, stoats, weasels and corvids, plus the trees and shrubs which are a vital part of a biodiverse upland environment. If the habitat can only be maintained through regular rotational burning, then it's simply not sustainable.
Very true - but it's still all done under the instruction of his boss. Most keepers, if instructed by a new employer to change their proceedures, would do so.
 
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