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Pipit for Id (1 Viewer)

Dmacaskill

Well-known member
poor shots of a pipit taken today in north Scotland
 

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Looks like a normal petrosus rock pipit to me

My experience of Anthus petrosus on the South and West coasts of the UK are almost exclusively of a darker greyer Rock Pipit. However I’ve encountered olivey examples as the subject bird mostly on the East and South East coasts looking quite different as per the subject bird. I believe petrosus to be mostly resident with littoralis being migratory from Scandinavia and the Baltic region.
 
My experience of petrosus (every day for the last 20 years or so) is that they look like this at this time of year.
 
My experience of petrosus (every day for the last 20 years or so) is that they look like this at this time of year.

I certainly don’t see them daily, perhaps several time’s per annum to the South and West coasts (Pembrokeshire) and there is a commonality of appearance with these Rock Pipits, in that they are distinctly grey to the upper-parts and often very darkly washed to the unders with absolutely no olivey washes to the plumage.
 
A.p.littoralis (as I understand it?) is the sub species of A.petrosus and is a regular Winter visitor to the UK?

Better ... ;)

Aka Scandinavian Rock Pipit.

See eg -

http://www.manchesterbirding.com/up...ttoralisianmckerchar2007manchesterbirding.pdf

for identification (not sure if up-to-date?) but my understanding is that the races aren't reliably distinguishable except by extreme examples (including eg autumn early migrants showing vestiges of breeding plumage or UK breeders). Even if there can be a strong suspicion of continental immigration/origin.
 
Do you see them in summer? They are greyer in summer

Yes my sightings of “grey” petrosus are certainly during the Summer months, however I’m fairly certain that I’ve had “grey” examples on the Sussex coast during the Winter months.

That said, years ago (70’s/80’s) during March/April I would occasionally encounter A.p.liittoralis on the Lee valley (London) reservoir banks, sometimes with a pink wash to the breast, slight super and distinctly grey uppers. Further to this it might be of interest I never encountered A.petrosus and rarely Water Pipit, the latter only in wet grass adjacent areas.

Clearly there is a degree of confusion regarding littoralis v petrosus if one looks at images on the web with “olivey” birds ascribed to both!
 
Littoralis can look a little greyer than petrosus outside of the breeding season - but many littoralis are probably not safely separable from petrosus in this plumage - so olive toned birds could be either.

The birds in the OP are well within range for the rather sedentary petrosus, and look like petrosus, so that's probably what they are.
 
Littoralis can look a little greyer than petrosus outside of the breeding season - but many littoralis are probably not safely separable from petrosus in this plumage - so olive toned birds could be either.

The birds in the OP are well within range for the rather sedentary petrosus, and look like petrosus, so that's probably what they are.

Dan's link makes interesting reading regarding olive washed birds?

Unfortunately I don't have any ideal profile images at hand, however here are a couple of images, 1st one taken at Ramsgate 26th October and the second taken on Jersey end of May (to my eye the 1st image is a classic A.p.) The 2nd image (a very clean example) and as best as one can glean from a full frontal, what might be the consensus on race?

Cheers
 

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Dan's link makes interesting reading regarding olive washed birds?

In terms of olive birds I don't think it adds much that hasn't already been said here (although it's obviously very detailed and an excellent resource). It says:

The vast majority of birds (at least) are not safely assignable to either sub-species in nonbreeding plumage.

Of non-breeding petrosus; Characteristically olive-grey, most pronounced on the lower back and rump.

And of non-breeding littoralis; Can sometimes tend to be slightly more brownish and less olive in tone.

So - both subspecies are likely to look olive but the one more likely to look less olive is littoralis.

Your bird face on might be littoralis as it has quite a pronounced supercilium and I guess range might suit that too - but I wouldn't like to say for sure
 
In terms of olive birds I don't think it adds much that hasn't already been said here (although it's obviously very detailed and an excellent resource). It says:

The vast majority of birds (at least) are not safely assignable to either sub-species in nonbreeding plumage.

Of non-breeding petrosus; Characteristically olive-grey, most pronounced on the lower back and rump.

And of non-breeding littoralis; Can sometimes tend to be slightly more brownish and less olive in tone.

So - both subspecies are likely to look olive but the one more likely to look less olive is littoralis.

Your bird face on might be littoralis as it has quite a pronounced supercilium and I guess range might suit that too - but I wouldn't like to say for sure

......me neither!
 
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